1 00:00:00,180 --> 00:00:02,900 - Being fired on the front page of the Wall Street Journal, 2 00:00:02,900 --> 00:00:04,570 I mean look, you can be embarrassed 3 00:00:04,570 --> 00:00:07,960 and let it really kill you 4 00:00:07,960 --> 00:00:10,887 or you can say, "Score, front page of the Journal!" 5 00:00:10,887 --> 00:00:12,346 "Amazing!" 6 00:00:12,346 --> 00:00:14,929 (upbeat music) 7 00:00:16,200 --> 00:00:18,780 - Another thing that we've talked about over the years 8 00:00:18,780 --> 00:00:21,560 is that high performing women, 9 00:00:21,560 --> 00:00:24,070 coming into their first or second jobs, 10 00:00:24,070 --> 00:00:26,023 see it as a continuation of school. 11 00:00:27,960 --> 00:00:28,793 - I know. 12 00:00:28,793 --> 00:00:30,578 - What's wrong with that? - We're so good! 13 00:00:30,578 --> 00:00:31,411 - We're so good at school. 14 00:00:31,411 --> 00:00:34,440 - We're so good at school and school seems so fair. 15 00:00:34,440 --> 00:00:35,700 - Well, it's comforting. 16 00:00:35,700 --> 00:00:37,860 - Yes, I know the rules are. - You know what the rules are. 17 00:00:37,860 --> 00:00:39,410 - We're in a double bind as women 18 00:00:39,410 --> 00:00:44,410 because of course we are punished for bragging, 19 00:00:46,920 --> 00:00:48,790 we are pushed back if 20 00:00:48,790 --> 00:00:51,570 we're seen to be seeking attention or power. 21 00:00:51,570 --> 00:00:54,410 And so, as with so much in the traditional workplace, 22 00:00:54,410 --> 00:00:56,610 we have to walk that fine line 23 00:00:56,610 --> 00:01:01,140 of how do you make it known, 24 00:01:01,140 --> 00:01:03,910 but not be seen as obnoxious and aggressive. 25 00:01:03,910 --> 00:01:05,140 It's a very fine line. 26 00:01:05,140 --> 00:01:08,300 - What for you was that wake up moment 27 00:01:08,300 --> 00:01:11,540 about the fact that there was so much imbalance 28 00:01:11,540 --> 00:01:13,340 either in the workplace or on Wall Street? 29 00:01:13,340 --> 00:01:15,630 - It really was the financial crisis that opened my eyes, 30 00:01:15,630 --> 00:01:17,017 but finally I looked around and said, 31 00:01:17,017 --> 00:01:19,817 "The very fact that I made it doesn't mean it's doable" 32 00:01:19,817 --> 00:01:23,227 "and doesn't mean that business is a meritocracy" 33 00:01:23,227 --> 00:01:25,630 "and doesn't mean that it's a level playing field." 34 00:01:25,630 --> 00:01:28,840 I didn't happen to have to have Harvey Weinstein 35 00:01:28,840 --> 00:01:30,880 go through that office in order to be successful. 36 00:01:30,880 --> 00:01:34,390 I happen to work for some terrific bosses. 37 00:01:34,390 --> 00:01:37,767 I always say, "I also didn't happen to work for Steve." 38 00:01:38,860 --> 00:01:42,780 Steve is a super nice guy. 39 00:01:42,780 --> 00:01:44,920 Steve has a daughter. 40 00:01:44,920 --> 00:01:48,150 Steve went to unconscious bias training. 41 00:01:48,150 --> 00:01:50,220 Steve is in middle management. 42 00:01:50,220 --> 00:01:52,970 Steve hasn't promoted a woman or a person of color 43 00:01:52,970 --> 00:01:57,130 or other minority in years and everybody likes Steve. 44 00:01:57,130 --> 00:01:59,137 And of course we as women sit there and say, 45 00:01:59,137 --> 00:02:01,730 "Ah, why didn't I get the promotion?" 46 00:02:01,730 --> 00:02:04,450 And I don't wanna say Steve is biased. 47 00:02:04,450 --> 00:02:08,753 What I'll say is Steve has been socialized in our society. 48 00:02:09,630 --> 00:02:12,370 So Steve, when he thinks of the right person 49 00:02:12,370 --> 00:02:15,380 for the promotion, he tends to think of a white man. 50 00:02:15,380 --> 00:02:18,870 So, I didn't work for Steve or any of those others. 51 00:02:18,870 --> 00:02:22,110 What is very interesting about my career 52 00:02:22,110 --> 00:02:23,773 is that I also got fired twice. 53 00:02:24,810 --> 00:02:28,070 While I had bosses who said, "Go, go, go." 54 00:02:28,070 --> 00:02:30,740 I also had bosses who said, "Stop, stop, stop, stop, stop." 55 00:02:30,740 --> 00:02:31,573 - Right? 56 00:02:31,573 --> 00:02:32,680 - Right and my success and failure 57 00:02:32,680 --> 00:02:35,340 I think were two sides of the same coin. 58 00:02:35,340 --> 00:02:38,020 - And your firings were quite public 59 00:02:38,020 --> 00:02:40,670 because at the level at which you were at at the time-- 60 00:02:40,670 --> 00:02:41,640 - Yes, I remember that. 61 00:02:41,640 --> 00:02:43,093 Thank you for bringing it up.