WEBVTT 00:00:00.200 --> 00:00:03.800 what makes for a great company to work for is it the pay isn't 00:00:03.800 --> 00:00:06.600 the benefits the career growth opportunities on this episode 00:00:06.600 --> 00:00:09.300 of today and Tack we're going to discuss what makes companies 00:00:09.300 --> 00:00:11.200 one of the best places to work and I T 00:00:22.700 --> 00:00:25.600 everyone welcome do today and check on Keith shot joining 00:00:25.600 --> 00:00:26.100 me on the show. 00:00:26.100 --> 00:00:27.400 Today is Beth stack Paul. 00:00:27.400 --> 00:00:30.600 She is a computer World contributor and author of the site's 00:00:30.600 --> 00:00:34.300 best places to work in it 2024 ignition and Valerie Potter 00:00:34.300 --> 00:00:36.800 features editor and one of the coordinators of this project 00:00:36.800 --> 00:00:39.200 welcome to the show Beth and Val. 00:00:40.100 --> 00:00:42.300 Thank you. Thank you for having us. 00:00:42.300 --> 00:00:46.000 All right. So this is the 30th year that computer world has done 00:00:46.000 --> 00:00:48.700 this project. I didn't realize that this project had that kind 00:00:48.700 --> 00:00:52.400 of longevity. What why do you think that this has resonated 00:00:52.400 --> 00:00:55.600 with readers of of computer world back in the days when we had 00:00:55.600 --> 00:00:58.900 print magazines and and now viewers and readers of the website. 00:00:58.900 --> 00:01:01.500 Why why is this such a cool project? 00:01:03.100 --> 00:01:03.700 world 00:01:07.200 --> 00:01:10.600 eager to see who the best players are and thinking maybe I should 00:01:10.600 --> 00:01:15.900 apply to one of these organizations and curiosity what type 00:01:15.900 --> 00:01:19.600 of benefits and perks are other i t Pros getting and can I get 00:01:19.600 --> 00:01:21.400 those that kind of thing? 00:01:21.400 --> 00:01:24.600 I think it's also just really nice to read about companies 00:01:24.600 --> 00:01:25.300 that are treating their workers. 00:01:25.300 --> 00:01:28.900 Right? It's just it's just it's like I feel good every year 00:01:28.900 --> 00:01:35.200 and it's also any other employers look at it as well cuz they 00:01:35.200 --> 00:01:37.500 want to see that you know with all the competition for Tech 00:01:37.500 --> 00:01:41.300 Talent. They want to see what these day plus companies 00:01:41.300 --> 00:01:46.800 are doing. So, I think it's just a it's a little cheat sheet 00:01:46.800 --> 00:01:49.500 for for those types of companies to find out you know, 00:01:49.500 --> 00:01:52.900 what works. Yeah, I'm always curious to see does that is that 00:01:52.900 --> 00:01:56.200 an indication of maybe there's a lot of companies out there 00:01:56.200 --> 00:02:02.100 that are not great places to work as the popularity of the of 00:02:02.100 --> 00:02:05.300 the project might lead some some some people to go. 00:02:05.300 --> 00:02:07.700 Yeah. I work for a company that It's me. 00:02:07.700 --> 00:02:19.500 Maybe I should go try to find out where the good ones are project. 00:02:19.500 --> 00:02:22.500 But as it as the project has evolved, 00:02:22.500 --> 00:02:27.500 have you noticed maybe different areas gain more attention 00:02:27.500 --> 00:02:30.000 than others, you know, did it used to be just about how much 00:02:30.000 --> 00:02:32.700 people were paying and that was the thing but now it's more 00:02:32.700 --> 00:02:36.700 about benefits because as I've got along in my career my Freighters 00:02:36.700 --> 00:02:39.100 that have changed about what I want from a company. 00:02:40.500 --> 00:02:43.800 Yeah, look some things are confident. 00:02:43.800 --> 00:02:47.100 It's definitely something there's been some some change as the 00:02:47.100 --> 00:02:47.600 world has changed. 00:02:47.600 --> 00:02:50.900 But but I will tell you I started working on this project 00:02:50.900 --> 00:02:55.400 in 2012. So, you know spend spend a good chunk of time that 00:02:55.400 --> 00:02:56.900 I've been personally been involved with it. It 00:02:56.900 --> 00:02:59.100 was going for a lot longer even before that. 00:02:59.100 --> 00:03:02.900 So but but even back then you know, 00:03:02.900 --> 00:03:06.800 it's always been obvious companies work to attract top talent 00:03:06.800 --> 00:03:10.400 with straight salaries and benefits in office Parks all that 00:03:10.400 --> 00:03:16.700 stuff. But even back then there was the most enthusiastic 00:03:16.700 --> 00:03:21.400 about focused on the corporate culture across the whole organization 00:03:21.400 --> 00:03:25.100 and within the IT department and that's a trend that I've only 00:03:25.100 --> 00:03:28.500 seen strengthened over the years including through the pandemic. 00:03:28.500 --> 00:03:31.600 Yeah. Yeah these employers invest in their workers. 00:03:31.600 --> 00:03:35.700 They offer all kinds of training Career Development challenging 00:03:35.700 --> 00:03:39.500 projects so they can learn new skills in grow in New Directions. 00:03:40.500 --> 00:03:42.500 They recognize employee accomplishments. 00:03:42.500 --> 00:03:46.500 They Foster River Spirit of teamwork and employee engagement 00:03:46.500 --> 00:03:49.500 a sponsor group activities. 00:03:49.500 --> 00:03:54.400 It just all of these things tell i t Pros that they are valued 00:03:54.400 --> 00:03:58.000 and this is been the case that the top organizations 00:03:58.000 --> 00:04:00.300 All Along being as long as I've been working on. 00:04:00.300 --> 00:04:02.500 This project has have been there. 00:04:02.500 --> 00:04:10.500 All right how you compile the list you go out in and you know 00:04:10.500 --> 00:04:15.000 research and serve a lot of these companies and it goes from 00:04:15.000 --> 00:04:18.200 people or do they fill out a form is it is it is it 00:04:18.200 --> 00:04:21.800 just data that you collect and then it's a ranking and it's 00:04:21.800 --> 00:04:23.300 more science than our tour. 00:04:23.300 --> 00:04:27.300 Is there an is there an arc for determining? 00:04:27.300 --> 00:04:30.300 Yeah, this this feels like it's a good place to work or we get 00:04:30.300 --> 00:04:33.800 or they get mentioned another publication zanin and things 00:04:33.800 --> 00:04:35.400 like that like give me a little bit, 00:04:35.400 --> 00:04:36.200 you know what to tell me about, 00:04:36.200 --> 00:04:38.500 you know, the complete sausage making process, 00:04:38.500 --> 00:04:39.400 but just give me a little bit. 00:04:40.500 --> 00:04:43.300 Taste I guess it's a little bit. 00:04:47.200 --> 00:04:48.200 invited 00:04:52.300 --> 00:04:56.300 the company still out and ask detailed questions everything 00:04:56.300 --> 00:05:01.500 from the rate of it gross salary increases to benefits and perks 00:05:01.500 --> 00:05:04.000 to training and career development programs. 00:05:04.000 --> 00:05:08.200 Even things like Bei practices Employee Engagement and retain 00:05:08.200 --> 00:05:11.800 retaining strategies all that kind of stuff. 00:05:11.800 --> 00:05:13.000 So that's the hard part. 00:05:13.000 --> 00:05:17.700 I mean, it's all multiple choice or yes, 00:05:17.700 --> 00:05:18.800 no kind of questions. 00:05:18.800 --> 00:05:25.600 And so all that data gets crunch by we have a a research 00:05:25.600 --> 00:05:29.700 organization that does all that kind of stuff and they come 00:05:29.700 --> 00:05:33.000 up with the initial rankings in three separate groups for large 00:05:33.000 --> 00:05:36.700 men size in small organizations, but we also have these companies 00:05:36.700 --> 00:05:40.300 to write essays that elaborate on drugs. 00:05:40.300 --> 00:05:45.500 So it really it like it's a big commitment to be part of this 00:05:45.500 --> 00:05:49.800 program. Sounds like my daughter's college applications 00:05:49.800 --> 00:05:51.300 that he's going through at the moment. 00:05:51.300 --> 00:05:53.500 That's why Chuckled when I heard essay. 00:06:01.200 --> 00:06:02.200 Okay is an 00:06:04.200 --> 00:06:06.900 And what each company is doing 80 in a particular area? 00:06:06.900 --> 00:06:10.900 So I was looking for instance at the diversity equity and inclusion 00:06:10.900 --> 00:06:18.400 essays from the judges are factored in right right. 00:06:18.400 --> 00:06:29.700 Now we're talking about 2024. 00:06:29.800 --> 00:06:33.000 What are the big trends that emerge from? 00:06:33.000 --> 00:06:33.800 This year's list? 00:06:33.800 --> 00:06:38.900 What what are the big the big picture categories of making 00:06:38.900 --> 00:06:39.800 them a best place to work? 00:06:41.500 --> 00:06:46.100 I think the biggest shift that we that we saw this year and I think 00:06:46.100 --> 00:06:47.200 it's been building over. 00:06:47.200 --> 00:06:52.800 The last few years is that I T has really been recognized 00:06:52.800 --> 00:06:56.100 as the kind of epicenter of the business. 00:06:56.100 --> 00:06:58.600 So, you know, we've been talking about digital transformation 00:06:58.600 --> 00:07:03.600 for years pandemic really accelerated everything as companies, 00:07:03.600 --> 00:07:05.400 you know, put all kinds of, you know, 00:07:05.400 --> 00:07:08.400 everything from work from home to new customer experiences. 00:07:08.400 --> 00:07:11.500 And I think the lesson that came out of that which we've seen 00:07:11.500 --> 00:07:13.800 sort of perpetuated last year. 00:07:13.800 --> 00:07:16.800 And again this year is that you know, 00:07:16.800 --> 00:07:21.300 I T is really seen as a business you do a strategic business 00:07:21.300 --> 00:07:25.600 partner now not just an organization that you called because 00:07:25.600 --> 00:07:27.700 your computer won't work or you know, 00:07:27.700 --> 00:07:31.300 you need some sort of text support hand-holding or you want to 00:07:31.300 --> 00:07:34.000 you know, go through the pros and cons on a particular 00:07:34.000 --> 00:07:38.000 product. We really see, you know, these organizations 00:07:38.000 --> 00:07:41.000 that really stood out or sort of practicing what they preach 00:07:41.000 --> 00:07:46.900 and I really putting mechanisms and programs in place that sort 00:07:46.900 --> 00:07:50.900 of an able that that I T and business, 00:07:50.900 --> 00:07:52.400 you know Partnerships. 00:07:52.400 --> 00:07:58.600 I think the it organization as that sort of equal and I don't 00:07:58.600 --> 00:08:02.000 I think that's a shift from maybe way back in the beginning 00:08:02.000 --> 00:08:02.800 when we did this. 00:08:02.800 --> 00:08:05.100 I know what I was going to say cuz I worked on quite a 00:08:05.100 --> 00:08:07.700 few of these also in the beginning, 00:08:07.700 --> 00:08:10.700 you know companies might like to do this because they like to 00:08:10.700 --> 00:08:15.100 Showcase their organization and their people and their projects 00:08:15.100 --> 00:08:18.500 as the star but it was sort of in their own little microcosm 00:08:18.500 --> 00:08:21.400 and I feel like what's shifted and and what's being reflected 00:08:21.400 --> 00:08:25.300 last year this year and going forward is it it's it's you know, 00:08:25.300 --> 00:08:28.700 I T is sort of on the center stage for all of the business. 00:08:28.700 --> 00:08:30.800 It's not just in their own little world anymore. 00:08:30.800 --> 00:08:35.800 And I think these companies do the best job of making that happen 00:08:35.800 --> 00:08:40.400 from from a program and cultural perspective to other areas 00:08:40.400 --> 00:08:40.900 of the 00:08:41.500 --> 00:08:45.900 I asked you about including the ability to cultivate Talent 00:08:45.900 --> 00:08:47.000 from within a company. 00:08:47.000 --> 00:08:52.100 Have you seen ships from companies that might be used to go outside 00:08:52.100 --> 00:08:55.300 the firm to find new employees, but now they're looking at all, 00:08:55.300 --> 00:08:57.800 right, who do we already have and how can we make them better? 00:08:57.800 --> 00:09:02.900 But then also it in a similar vein getting people from the business 00:09:02.900 --> 00:09:03.500 side of things. 00:09:03.500 --> 00:09:08.600 So maybe you're in marketing or maybe you're in sales and getting 00:09:08.600 --> 00:09:11.500 them interested in the technology it side of things and ended 00:09:11.500 --> 00:09:14.500 in creating that that cohesion integration. 00:09:14.500 --> 00:09:16.900 Is it is that something that we've seen over the last few years. 00:09:16.900 --> 00:09:19.700 Yes, we've definitely seen a lot more of that. 00:09:19.700 --> 00:09:22.700 I think part of that has to do with ongoing Talent shortages 00:09:22.700 --> 00:09:25.200 and talent crunches and some of the critical areas, 00:09:25.200 --> 00:09:28.500 but I also think that's also reflective of this sort of, 00:09:28.500 --> 00:09:31.000 you know, I T business Synergy. 00:09:31.000 --> 00:09:34.200 So for folks that have been working in it and have already 00:09:34.200 --> 00:09:37.200 emerged in the business and maybe you're working with no particular 00:09:37.200 --> 00:09:39.900 functional areas. They get the business. 00:09:39.900 --> 00:09:43.900 They understand what the f Witches are they know what the the 00:09:43.900 --> 00:09:48.300 goals are and so it makes sense that that you want to hold on 00:09:48.300 --> 00:09:51.500 to that kind of intellectual Capital because it's more important 00:09:51.500 --> 00:09:55.600 than just getting the greatest, you know a eye specialist 00:09:55.600 --> 00:09:59.500 or whatever that doesn't have the same context around your organization 00:09:59.500 --> 00:10:03.400 and objectives. So we definitely saw a lot of programs and Pathways 00:10:03.400 --> 00:10:07.300 where you know, ten people can go immersed in the business 00:10:07.300 --> 00:10:10.700 and maybe spend time and different functional areas or teamed 00:10:10.700 --> 00:10:13.700 up with specific business partners, but we're also seeing 00:10:13.700 --> 00:10:18.500 you no business folk who perhaps have a propensity for some 00:10:18.500 --> 00:10:19.300 sort of Technology. 00:10:19.300 --> 00:10:23.400 They're good at you know, add a lytx or they can do visualisations 00:10:23.400 --> 00:10:24.900 and that kind of thing, you know, 00:10:24.900 --> 00:10:28.400 some of these companies that are real standouts are creating 00:10:28.400 --> 00:10:32.100 programs where they can learn an upscale maybe particular, 00:10:32.100 --> 00:10:35.100 you know technology skills may be learned, 00:10:35.100 --> 00:10:39.100 you know Tableau or visualisations or data science and you know, 00:10:39.100 --> 00:10:43.000 really Elevate them and I see That you know, 00:10:43.000 --> 00:10:46.900 it just creates more opportunities and add more unique kinds 00:10:46.900 --> 00:10:52.100 of roles that that I T organ pitn can get into versus the same 00:10:52.100 --> 00:10:52.900 old same old. 00:10:52.900 --> 00:10:56.100 I think we're talking about a lot of those the business 00:10:56.100 --> 00:10:58.000 people getting involved in more and more technology. 00:10:58.000 --> 00:11:03.200 Do you think that that's a result of a generation of employees 00:11:03.200 --> 00:11:06.300 that were exposed to technology from you. 00:11:06.300 --> 00:11:09.500 The day they were born and are now into the workplace whether 00:11:09.500 --> 00:11:12.700 it's a Generation Z generation millennial generation. 00:11:12.700 --> 00:11:16.200 I'm a little bit older than that, 00:11:16.200 --> 00:11:19.800 but I came about like I was working in the world before the internet, 00:11:19.800 --> 00:11:25.800 but I adapted to it and very quickly but you you have younger 00:11:25.800 --> 00:11:28.900 workers that you know, if if if you were an account of your 00:11:28.900 --> 00:11:30.700 like, of course, I know how to use accounting software. 00:11:30.700 --> 00:11:33.700 Of course, I'm going to know how to use this computer using it 00:11:33.700 --> 00:11:34.600 for 25 years. 00:11:34.600 --> 00:11:37.700 So it might be easier now to find those people to then say well, 00:11:37.700 --> 00:11:40.600 why don't you guys take the next step and and and really work 00:11:40.600 --> 00:11:41.300 on this i t? 00:11:41.500 --> 00:11:43.700 Rather than just thinking like I have to be a computer programmer. 00:11:43.700 --> 00:11:54.200 For example, do you think it's part of The Silo? 00:11:54.200 --> 00:11:57.000 That was all you know that the business K. 00:11:57.000 --> 00:12:00.900 Okay. We want to do this HR the application or we want this 00:12:00.900 --> 00:12:03.400 particular thing and I T did it off over here. 00:12:03.400 --> 00:12:08.100 Whereas now that technology is so pervasive in our home lives 00:12:08.100 --> 00:12:09.500 in an are personalized. 00:12:09.500 --> 00:12:13.700 We expect that same type of Technology at work and everybody 00:12:13.700 --> 00:12:14.700 is familiar with it. 00:12:14.700 --> 00:12:17.200 Therefore if you're thinking about a specific initiative 00:12:17.200 --> 00:12:20.500 you might want to do there's always a technology component 00:12:20.500 --> 00:12:26.900 to it it it's not a silo and you as well. 00:12:28.200 --> 00:12:29.200 Oh, yeah, absolutely. 00:12:29.200 --> 00:12:32.800 I mean digital transformation. 00:12:32.800 --> 00:12:41.100 I mean, I'm not a big fan of that term Shrek and it's like 00:12:41.100 --> 00:12:44.400 I'm going to digitally transform is exactly 00:12:46.600 --> 00:12:47.500 but it is 00:12:54.500 --> 00:12:59.300 I mean all forward-looking ones anyway, so and that just makes 00:12:59.300 --> 00:13:05.000 i t and an IT workers equal partners and and so you know who 00:13:05.000 --> 00:13:07.300 doesn't who wouldn't want to be part of that didn't you just 00:13:07.300 --> 00:13:08.600 send me out again. 00:13:08.600 --> 00:13:11.700 So it's only natural that people are going to cross back and 00:13:11.700 --> 00:13:19.100 forth right of the project was it's good to be an IT. 00:13:19.100 --> 00:13:23.300 Are you seeing as this trend continued even though we seen a lot 00:13:23.300 --> 00:13:27.300 of tech layoffs specially in the early part of 2023 and now it's 00:13:27.300 --> 00:13:28.200 starting to Bubble up again. 00:13:28.200 --> 00:13:31.000 We're hearing of some major Tech layoffs or major companies 00:13:31.000 --> 00:13:35.100 that are intact laying off their employees or it still is it still 00:13:35.100 --> 00:13:36.600 good to be an it, I guess. 00:13:38.000 --> 00:13:39.100 Anyone could just yeah. 00:13:39.100 --> 00:13:43.600 Yeah. Yeah the research. 00:13:43.600 --> 00:13:47.100 I mean it was like the Lion's Share of companies in the eighties 00:13:47.100 --> 00:13:50.000 or nineties percent, you know all our planning on growing 00:13:50.000 --> 00:13:54.100 their staff all are looking at you know promotions all looking at 00:13:54.100 --> 00:13:58.900 raises very very little if any consolidation. 00:13:58.900 --> 00:14:01.900 So I think there's a delineation between the technology 00:14:01.900 --> 00:14:06.000 companies that perhaps you know over hired and they you know, 00:14:06.000 --> 00:14:10.100 everybody bought technology during the pandemic and I actually 00:14:10.100 --> 00:14:13.200 work on the state of the CIO project in what we saw last year 00:14:13.200 --> 00:14:18.300 was a real retrenching we're not retrenching but serve a digesting 00:14:18.300 --> 00:14:20.700 is how I like to put it like everybody bought all the stuff 00:14:20.700 --> 00:14:23.900 and now they had to sort of like make sure it was you know 00:14:23.900 --> 00:14:26.600 doing what it was supposed to do and they were getting our Ally 00:14:26.600 --> 00:14:31.700 so I don't think the cuts translate to the it organizations 00:14:31.700 --> 00:14:34.900 within you know, sort of most companies if you're if you're 00:14:34.900 --> 00:14:37.600 not in the tech sector at least the research didn't reflect 00:14:37.600 --> 00:14:41.900 that. Okay, and that you brought up the the pandemic which 00:14:41.900 --> 00:14:46.500 then leads to questions around remote work in the last year. 00:14:46.500 --> 00:14:49.700 We see we saw a big push back by a lot of companies to 00:14:49.700 --> 00:14:53.700 get people back in the office and I think most people have settled 00:14:53.700 --> 00:14:58.200 on this this hybrid work reality which has an impact if you're 00:14:58.200 --> 00:15:02.200 an IT of supporting remote workers and making sure that they 00:15:02.200 --> 00:15:08.300 have access to All the Right tools and software you did discover 00:15:08.300 --> 00:15:11.300 that there are some hybrid work issues from a lot of these 00:15:11.300 --> 00:15:12.900 companies that were on the list, correct? 00:15:14.100 --> 00:15:18.000 That's because he's being well I figured that you know that 00:15:18.000 --> 00:15:20.800 hybrid work is still in a high priority for a lot of companies, 00:15:20.800 --> 00:15:23.300 but they're getting but they're getting a little bit stricter 00:15:23.300 --> 00:15:30.300 write the larger companies tend to have more formal policies 00:15:30.300 --> 00:15:33.100 or I mean, they're all sort of green lighting hybrid work. 00:15:33.100 --> 00:15:36.800 Most of the company's the larger companies are tending to have 00:15:36.800 --> 00:15:40.300 more formal policies where you know, these are in office days 00:15:40.300 --> 00:15:45.500 versus not in office days and the actual it employees have some 00:15:45.500 --> 00:15:48.600 latitude in terms of adjusting that schedule but for the most 00:15:48.600 --> 00:15:50.700 part it's done in tandem with their manager. 00:15:50.700 --> 00:15:55.900 We're at the smaller companies the difference was that employees 00:15:55.900 --> 00:15:58.400 to eat another dad less formal policies, 00:15:58.400 --> 00:16:03.000 if any policies at all, I think are number one small best small 00:16:03.000 --> 00:16:05.400 company did not have any form of policy at all. 00:16:05.400 --> 00:16:08.600 It was really up to the employee as to how to structure 00:16:08.600 --> 00:16:12.100 their schedule and they were the smaller companies were also 00:16:12.100 --> 00:16:14.000 more open to remote. 00:16:14.200 --> 00:16:19.100 Fully remote positions and I think the upside of that is you 00:16:19.100 --> 00:16:22.300 know, when you go back to this whole notion of talent that really 00:16:22.300 --> 00:16:26.000 opens the door for them to have a much larger talent pool to choose 00:16:26.000 --> 00:16:28.600 from but they're not tied to their specific geographic 00:16:28.600 --> 00:16:34.200 area. But those were you know, those are pretty much the differences 00:16:34.200 --> 00:16:40.000 we saw do you think a lot of companies can use the categories 00:16:40.000 --> 00:16:42.600 that that you identified in this story as a recruiting 00:16:42.600 --> 00:16:45.100 tool? Like if you are accompanying her like, 00:16:45.100 --> 00:16:48.900 you know, we have a pretty Kick-Ass hybrid work policy here 00:16:48.900 --> 00:16:50.200 or remote work policy. 00:16:50.200 --> 00:16:54.600 We're going to use that as our recruiting tool or do you think 00:16:54.600 --> 00:16:57.100 they're going to be focused more on some of these other areas 00:16:57.100 --> 00:17:01.600 like career Growth Oil or you know developing from only the in 00:17:01.600 --> 00:17:06.100 some of those those aspects might be more attractive than then 00:17:06.100 --> 00:17:10.700 maybe strict, you know, either pay or hybrid work like hybrid 00:17:10.700 --> 00:17:13.200 work might be less of a of an appeal these days. 00:17:14.300 --> 00:17:17.600 Billy cat has to be a combination of all of the above because 00:17:17.600 --> 00:17:19.000 it really depends dividual. 00:17:19.000 --> 00:17:23.400 I have a twenty-something son who's in data science Rules. 00:17:23.400 --> 00:17:26.700 And this is his second job and he only wants fully remote, 00:17:26.700 --> 00:17:28.800 which I don't think it's great. 00:17:28.800 --> 00:17:30.100 But that's what he wants. 00:17:30.100 --> 00:17:33.400 But you don't really want like a a great, 00:17:33.400 --> 00:17:35.700 you know in office type of culture. 00:17:35.700 --> 00:17:39.100 So I feel like that the companies that are doing the best job. 00:17:39.100 --> 00:17:43.900 I think of being you know a best place to work kind of are 00:17:43.900 --> 00:17:45.600 addressing all of these areas. 00:17:45.600 --> 00:17:49.500 They're not necessarily picking a spot there really making 00:17:49.500 --> 00:17:53.100 a serious effort at all of these spots with a holistic kind 00:17:53.100 --> 00:17:57.400 of approach and now the report does not break down some of these 00:17:57.400 --> 00:18:01.500 companies into the like large midsize and small companies, 00:18:01.500 --> 00:18:06.100 correct? Well, like that's it was that is it is that a conscious 00:18:06.100 --> 00:18:06.300 decision? 00:18:07.700 --> 00:18:11.600 Because it just makes it easier to categorize or do you see differences 00:18:11.600 --> 00:18:16.600 between companies when it comes to the side like maybe a larger 00:18:16.600 --> 00:18:19.700 company can do more of these cool things. 00:18:19.700 --> 00:18:23.600 Whereas smaller companies can do can they they can be a little 00:18:23.600 --> 00:18:26.300 bit more flexible on some of these issues like 00:18:32.100 --> 00:18:36.700 it is you're just comparing apples to oranges to grapefruit. 00:18:36.700 --> 00:18:49.000 And anyway, it's the experience of working in these different 00:18:49.000 --> 00:18:52.400 size companies is very different and it just sort of sort of felt like, 00:18:52.400 --> 00:18:55.300 you know, this is a Level Playing Field to we're comparing, 00:18:55.300 --> 00:18:59.100 you know likes the lights this way and but it's true. 00:18:59.100 --> 00:19:03.700 I mean if if you're an icy employee looking for for work, 00:19:03.700 --> 00:19:06.400 you're going to have a different experience at a much larger 00:19:06.400 --> 00:19:09.900 company, then then you are too small and then like you said, 00:19:09.900 --> 00:19:14.900 the larger companies may have deeper pockets and be able to offer 00:19:14.900 --> 00:19:21.000 you know, that the gym on side of the cafeteria with the super 00:19:21.000 --> 00:19:25.100 healthy food or several different types of food to choose 00:19:25.100 --> 00:19:27.900 from and you know, things like that subsidized meals all those, 00:19:27.900 --> 00:19:31.300 you know, really exceptional perks, but 00:19:32.000 --> 00:19:35.600 They might get more flexibility out of a small company. 00:19:35.600 --> 00:19:39.600 You might also get more experience doing different things 00:19:39.600 --> 00:19:43.100 at a smaller company because there's there's fewer people 00:19:43.100 --> 00:19:46.800 to cover every right, right, you might you might be able to move 00:19:46.800 --> 00:19:48.200 up more quickly at a smaller company. 00:19:48.200 --> 00:19:54.900 It does feel like that categorisation is a reader benefit 00:19:54.900 --> 00:19:59.800 given that a lot of IT workers my Tori anybody in general 00:19:59.800 --> 00:20:02.100 you probably work for a small company. 00:20:02.100 --> 00:20:05.000 You probably work for a midsize and maybe work for a big company 00:20:05.000 --> 00:20:09.400 and you were like, well, she's I'm never going to work for a big 00:20:09.400 --> 00:20:11.000 company ever again because of you. 00:20:11.000 --> 00:20:14.200 He was layers and layers and layers of bureaucracy that we were 00:20:14.200 --> 00:20:16.700 frustrated but on the other end if you know, I 00:20:16.700 --> 00:20:18.900 was like, yeah, I work for a startup once and it was like 00:20:18.900 --> 00:20:21.100 you had to work for a 70 hours a week and you had to 00:20:21.100 --> 00:20:24.900 do six different jobs and that can get stressful and frustrating 00:20:24.900 --> 00:20:27.200 to again depending on where you are in your career growth. 00:20:27.200 --> 00:20:32.000 So I think it's it's me that you do that with split split. 00:20:32.000 --> 00:20:35.000 That off so if I was in it is like why I don't I 00:20:35.000 --> 00:20:37.200 don't care about any of these large companies cuz I will never 00:20:37.200 --> 00:20:39.600 work for them again and I'll look at the chart that says alright 00:20:39.600 --> 00:20:41.000 smaller companies. What can I do? 00:20:41.000 --> 00:20:47.100 That's why I bet smaller companies that made the list and especially 00:20:47.100 --> 00:20:50.000 at the top of the list there more Progressive and they're 00:20:50.000 --> 00:20:55.400 definitely more apt to see it and and technology in general 00:20:55.400 --> 00:20:56.500 as a key differentiator. 00:20:56.500 --> 00:21:01.500 So in those companies you probably do have lots of kind of perhaps 00:21:01.500 --> 00:21:05.000 cool opportunities that you might not get at a larger company 00:21:05.000 --> 00:21:08.000 because maybe it's not so much like put you in the Box. 00:21:08.000 --> 00:21:09.000 This is your roll. 00:21:09.000 --> 00:21:12.800 I think, you know smaller companies in general not every company 00:21:12.800 --> 00:21:16.700 is as Progressive, you know specially at a smaller level has 00:21:16.700 --> 00:21:18.100 gotten to that place yet. 00:21:18.100 --> 00:21:20.900 So I so I think when you're thinking about it yourself to think 00:21:20.900 --> 00:21:21.200 about 00:21:22.400 --> 00:21:27.200 The type of company in the digital maturity Spectrum. 00:21:27.200 --> 00:21:33.200 Okay, and what are some of the more unique benefit packages 00:21:33.200 --> 00:21:38.200 that are out there are benefits are still it's still a big factor 00:21:38.200 --> 00:21:41.100 about choosing where you know, you might want to work or looking 00:21:41.100 --> 00:21:44.800 at companies there that might make a list versus ones that don't 00:21:44.800 --> 00:21:47.800 like what it what are some of the newer or cooler things that 00:21:47.800 --> 00:21:52.600 that you guys have been saying Beth early days. 00:21:52.600 --> 00:21:55.700 I did this a lot of the commentary was on, 00:21:55.700 --> 00:21:58.700 you know, the the cool like the rooms with, 00:21:58.700 --> 00:22:01.900 you know, the pool tables and the dart boards and that the the, 00:22:01.900 --> 00:22:05.600 you know, the coffee area where they were free snacks and all 00:22:05.600 --> 00:22:06.200 of that good stuff. 00:22:06.200 --> 00:22:13.100 I don't have the beer keg of that the last few years not that 00:22:13.100 --> 00:22:14.400 there aren't perks like that. 00:22:14.400 --> 00:22:16.000 There are as I felt like this year. 00:22:16.000 --> 00:22:19.400 A lot of them are really focused on Wellness perks and creating 00:22:19.400 --> 00:22:21.900 work-life balance. So you saw everything from 00:22:22.400 --> 00:22:26.000 Parental leave and reimbursements, you know for childcare 00:22:26.000 --> 00:22:31.100 on-site childcare one of the more unique ones that stood out 00:22:31.100 --> 00:22:35.900 to me was a company who had some travel kind of benefits 00:22:35.900 --> 00:22:39.700 put in place specifically for women who were in need of Women's 00:22:39.700 --> 00:22:43.500 Healthcare that might have to travel outside their state in response 00:22:43.500 --> 00:22:45.700 to what happened this year with Roe v Wade. 00:22:45.700 --> 00:22:49.900 I thought was pretty interesting a lot of you like, 00:22:49.900 --> 00:22:55.600 you know, again in the wellness vein meditation yoga on-site 00:22:55.600 --> 00:23:01.300 Jim's, you know, virtual like competitions virtual races all 00:23:01.300 --> 00:23:04.600 those kinds of things you do both to create camaraderie, 00:23:04.600 --> 00:23:09.300 but also to really strike that balance between you know, 00:23:09.300 --> 00:23:13.700 what a work-life balance and I think a lot of that came out of 00:23:13.700 --> 00:23:16.500 the pandemic also where people be kind of became focused 00:23:16.500 --> 00:23:20.300 on that. So so less the less the cool like, 00:23:21.100 --> 00:23:26.200 Oracle Tech Pro Perks and more of the focus on that type of stuff. 00:23:26.200 --> 00:23:31.100 I think every time I've ever seen a company that has like either a 00:23:31.100 --> 00:23:32.700 pool table or ping pong table. 00:23:32.700 --> 00:23:35.000 Nobody actually using them. 00:23:35.000 --> 00:23:38.100 They're they're dragging out the whole TV. 00:23:38.100 --> 00:23:45.400 Yeah. It's only a Hollywood expectation about what a cool company 00:23:45.400 --> 00:23:50.500 is did you ever did you see the video of that was why are 00:23:50.500 --> 00:23:53.900 all about the woman that worked at Twitter? 00:23:53.900 --> 00:23:59.600 And she was showing her day and it in 88 included a wine on 00:23:59.600 --> 00:24:04.200 tap type of of it wasn't it wasn't beer on tap. 00:24:04.200 --> 00:24:05.300 It was wine on tap. 00:24:05.300 --> 00:24:07.300 And so at the end of the day she was like, 00:24:07.300 --> 00:24:09.400 yeah, and now I have my glass of wine and I can watch it 00:24:09.400 --> 00:24:09.900 out on my balcony. 00:24:09.900 --> 00:24:18.000 I don't know if you saw that it was being in their office. 00:24:21.100 --> 00:24:24.100 Guy ever got one when I was a computer World in in-network 00:24:24.100 --> 00:24:27.600 world in the early days was on Thursday night. 00:24:27.600 --> 00:24:30.600 They that was their big deadline to head back. 00:24:30.600 --> 00:24:34.900 Get back into the print days until the big the big the big Park 00:24:34.900 --> 00:24:39.500 was a we get pizza, but we thought it was a perk what it 00:24:39.500 --> 00:24:41.900 was really like we're going to keep you here until 8 and then 00:24:41.900 --> 00:24:44.200 at night and we don't want you to leave for leaving for dinner. 00:24:44.200 --> 00:24:48.900 So here's some free pizza at South I think that grew out of that 00:24:48.900 --> 00:24:51.500 it was like, oh, you know, we have to feed our employees are 00:24:51.500 --> 00:24:52.700 they're going to go and leave and then, 00:24:52.700 --> 00:24:54.900 you know not come back that night. 00:24:54.900 --> 00:24:59.100 So yeah, I mean, I think that the health the healthy stuff 00:24:59.100 --> 00:25:02.400 is cool. I am one of those guys that was like, 00:25:02.400 --> 00:25:03.700 I wish they had a vending machine here. 00:25:03.700 --> 00:25:12.700 Okay. So if you got meditation and you've got yoga, 00:25:12.700 --> 00:25:15.900 theoretically maybe he'll come in to take advantage of those 00:25:15.900 --> 00:25:16.400 things. 00:25:21.000 --> 00:25:22.500 Massage therapy is a benefit. 00:25:24.100 --> 00:25:25.200 supposedly 00:25:27.700 --> 00:25:28.300 they fill out. 00:25:28.300 --> 00:25:32.000 Yes, and I want to make it up there this paid time off for 00:25:32.000 --> 00:25:34.300 Pay It Forward volunteer opportunities. 00:25:34.300 --> 00:25:38.900 That was one of the the unique benefits in and 00:25:42.700 --> 00:25:47.900 or is it more of a recruiting tool by by a company to be 00:25:47.900 --> 00:25:51.600 like and we offer this because we think it's cool. 00:25:53.500 --> 00:25:56.800 I don't think it's necessarily a recruiting tool so much. 00:25:56.800 --> 00:26:01.400 I mean, I think I don't know anybody who would make a job decision 00:26:01.400 --> 00:26:05.200 based on that, you know, but but it's a nice to have and it 00:26:05.200 --> 00:26:10.500 shows that the company cares about other things other than the 00:26:10.500 --> 00:26:15.200 bottom line and in addition to having to pay time off for individual 00:26:15.200 --> 00:26:18.000 employees to just go out and do volunteer opportunities. 00:26:18.000 --> 00:26:20.900 A lot of them will actually arrange group volunteer activities. 00:26:20.900 --> 00:26:23.500 So the whole it team will go and work in a food bank for 00:26:23.500 --> 00:26:30.100 the day or or go, you know work with high school students 00:26:30.100 --> 00:26:33.000 to teach found technology skills and computer skills things 00:26:33.000 --> 00:26:38.800 like that. And that is a group building exercise and it increases 00:26:38.800 --> 00:26:41.000 Employee Engagement. And yeah, it's a day off from work, 00:26:41.000 --> 00:26:42.700 but I bet you get paid for it, 00:26:42.700 --> 00:26:46.100 but I think it really really helps build the corporate 00:26:46.100 --> 00:26:51.000 culture. It's more of a retention tool. 00:26:53.500 --> 00:26:55.800 Both of you am going to put you on the spot a little bit 00:26:55.800 --> 00:27:00.000 when you get here, you obviously you've seen the list again 00:27:00.000 --> 00:27:02.800 and you know about some of the companies on the list is do you 00:27:02.800 --> 00:27:06.200 ever either a favorite company that's on that list that made 00:27:06.200 --> 00:27:11.400 the list or something that really stood stood them out as as one 00:27:11.400 --> 00:27:12.500 of the best places to work. 00:27:14.900 --> 00:27:16.300 Sorry about that. 00:27:16.300 --> 00:27:19.300 I have one company. 00:27:19.300 --> 00:27:21.400 I don't know that I should say the name, 00:27:21.400 --> 00:27:27.100 but I found them you won't get in trouble with you say it wasn't 00:27:27.100 --> 00:27:31.400 bad. It was one of the best it was one of the top mid-size 00:27:31.400 --> 00:27:35.800 companies Power Home Building is the name and what's me is very 00:27:35.800 --> 00:27:42.800 interesting is that they build it yourself and not not there. 00:27:42.800 --> 00:27:44.300 That's what they do for business. 00:27:44.300 --> 00:27:48.100 But their whole i t is is wrapped around build it yourself. 00:27:48.100 --> 00:27:51.800 So they built their own transformation platform, 00:27:51.800 --> 00:27:55.200 they built their own platform that's like their platform 00:27:55.200 --> 00:27:58.400 for connecting contractors and jobs and all of that and a lot 00:27:58.400 --> 00:28:02.700 of the technology they're working on it is is built and house 00:28:02.700 --> 00:28:06.000 and in but it but it's you know, 00:28:06.000 --> 00:28:10.600 that kind of sounded strange to me because so much of of 80 is 00:28:10.600 --> 00:28:14.700 not built in house these days but right thing is it it's a thread 00:28:14.800 --> 00:28:16.000 Throughout their culture. 00:28:16.000 --> 00:28:18.400 I mean it's like they use it to promote their culture. 00:28:18.400 --> 00:28:21.200 They have a big event every year where people come in and they're 00:28:21.200 --> 00:28:24.000 tasked with the challenge and they you know build the system 00:28:24.000 --> 00:28:27.100 and sometimes that particular element gets incorporated 00:28:27.100 --> 00:28:28.700 into the main platform. 00:28:28.700 --> 00:28:32.600 But everything they do from recruiting to to their, 00:28:32.600 --> 00:28:38.000 you know, toot toot how they work together to they're the types of 00:28:38.000 --> 00:28:41.100 people that they hire in their their criteria and all of that 00:28:41.100 --> 00:28:45.400 is all wrapped around this build it yourself kind of thing 00:28:45.400 --> 00:28:46.600 an end to me. 00:28:46.600 --> 00:28:51.800 That was just so interesting because it just shows how the culture 00:28:51.800 --> 00:28:55.800 has really taken over and it's not just this little Silo isolated, 00:28:55.800 --> 00:29:00.600 you know Department building stuff in this note epicenter 00:29:00.600 --> 00:29:03.300 of the business that works with all the various functions 00:29:03.300 --> 00:29:07.400 to build what they need to do to stay competitive in and to really 00:29:07.400 --> 00:29:10.800 kind of create the edge and their business world and a tie. 00:29:10.800 --> 00:29:12.500 I found that really interesting. 00:29:14.800 --> 00:29:18.700 And I hate to use it so cliche but whenever we hear some we 00:29:18.700 --> 00:29:21.300 were like we eat our own dog food or you know, 00:29:21.300 --> 00:29:24.300 I think that's trying to be replaced by another phrase that 00:29:24.300 --> 00:29:28.200 doesn't sound as his is disgusting is that is but you know, 00:29:28.200 --> 00:29:30.600 if that's what they're providing for customers than yeah. 00:29:30.600 --> 00:29:32.900 It has to be something that they're doing internally as well 00:29:32.900 --> 00:29:36.000 and and throw the whole company not just ideas. 00:29:36.000 --> 00:29:41.400 Like you said you got one or do you just love all the company 00:29:41.400 --> 00:29:42.900 that's like asking to pick your favorite, 00:29:42.900 --> 00:29:51.700 you know your favorite dog child her or animal programs 00:29:51.700 --> 00:29:53.000 or just cool little things. 00:29:53.000 --> 00:29:55.600 They do like 11 company and honestly, 00:29:55.600 --> 00:29:59.400 I can't remember which one it was now but they have a program 00:29:59.400 --> 00:30:03.700 that allows any employee to reserve 30 minutes on the calendar 00:30:03.700 --> 00:30:07.400 of neit leader and I just think that's very very cool. 00:30:07.400 --> 00:30:10.900 And I actually wish I could remember who that was. 00:30:14.700 --> 00:30:18.300 Again, it's just showing employees that they're valued. 00:30:18.300 --> 00:30:21.800 It's giving them one on one time with a with a leader in their 00:30:21.800 --> 00:30:25.200 department. And you know, it's for any purpose you want you can 00:30:25.200 --> 00:30:28.600 bring concerns questions ideas. 00:30:28.600 --> 00:30:33.100 You know, I just think that's a really really cool thing. 00:30:33.100 --> 00:30:37.900 There's another company that has a quarterly Innovation 00:30:37.900 --> 00:30:40.500 event where they bring people in from different parts of the 00:30:40.500 --> 00:30:46.400 company to test different Innovations out working Concepts. 00:30:46.400 --> 00:30:52.000 And if it if your project when it gets added to the company 00:30:52.000 --> 00:30:55.100 roadmap and you know just all kinds of stuff like that. 00:30:55.100 --> 00:31:00.800 I just think all the all the perks are great and all that but 00:31:00.800 --> 00:31:05.100 I just think that some of these unique opportunities 00:31:05.100 --> 00:31:08.100 to build skills and take on new challenges. 00:31:08.100 --> 00:31:11.600 Like that's I think what's really going to keep people there 00:31:11.600 --> 00:31:12.100 in the long term. 00:31:14.700 --> 00:31:18.000 Project to work on for for both of you or is this is this 00:31:18.000 --> 00:31:20.100 something that you would like. 00:31:20.100 --> 00:31:20.800 I got to do this again? 00:31:24.300 --> 00:31:28.400 SSV Bradley producers of this content. 00:31:28.400 --> 00:31:36.000 I'm not the type to do this or not. 00:31:36.000 --> 00:31:38.000 Maybe like we have to go. 00:31:38.000 --> 00:31:41.800 I'm going to just leave my stuff out of this do you like? 00:31:41.800 --> 00:31:45.400 Well, I'm I'm not a big guy. 00:31:45.400 --> 00:31:48.500 I don't like a lot of data stats number-crunching 00:31:48.500 --> 00:31:49.400 that kind of things. 00:31:49.400 --> 00:31:51.400 I I prefer the anecdotes. 00:31:51.400 --> 00:31:52.500 I think more than one. 00:31:52.500 --> 00:31:57.300 Yeah. So so what what do you get out of the project from from 00:31:57.300 --> 00:32:00.300 the writing perspective bath and then from the editing perspective 00:32:00.300 --> 00:32:04.600 like what do you get energized after this project is done and 00:32:04.600 --> 00:32:07.700 go while there's a lot of great companies out there or do you 00:32:07.700 --> 00:32:09.300 feel like it's just another project. 00:32:10.800 --> 00:32:14.700 But from my perspective, I don't have to deal with the number-crunching 00:32:14.700 --> 00:32:16.000 all of that. 00:32:16.000 --> 00:32:21.200 It's hard that you and I are in the same Vein on some from 00:32:21.200 --> 00:32:25.000 my perspective. It gives me a chance to talk to to be really 00:32:25.000 --> 00:32:28.400 interesting. You know, I T L who are doing really cool things that 00:32:28.400 --> 00:32:32.100 are really proud of of of not only what they're doing 00:32:32.100 --> 00:32:34.500 in their organization, but they're proud of the people that 00:32:34.500 --> 00:32:35.600 work for them. 00:32:35.600 --> 00:32:38.800 And so you really get to hear enthusiasm. 00:32:38.800 --> 00:32:42.900 I find with this one first as some of the other projects or 00:32:42.900 --> 00:32:46.300 some of the other stories, I report you don't get us you get 00:32:46.300 --> 00:32:50.300 more sort of anecdotal in the trenches people oriented kind 00:32:50.300 --> 00:32:53.800 of discussion versus sometimes, you know, if you're in interviewing 00:32:53.800 --> 00:32:58.300 a CIO or and i t l about a particular project tenses, 00:32:58.300 --> 00:33:03.500 sometimes I get a little business school speak this project 00:33:03.500 --> 00:33:07.200 really, you know people like to talk about like we were in a meeting 00:33:07.200 --> 00:33:10.600 and then we had this Innovation event and then you get real 00:33:10.600 --> 00:33:12.400 / Little stories and so for me, 00:33:12.400 --> 00:33:13.700 that's mostly gratifying. 00:33:13.700 --> 00:33:16.200 I love that about you. 00:33:17.200 --> 00:33:18.400 well 00:33:22.700 --> 00:33:25.100 a researcher who does that you know, 00:33:25.100 --> 00:33:30.200 so and and we have a wonderful project manager who really 00:33:30.200 --> 00:33:31.400 takes charge of the whole project. 00:33:31.400 --> 00:33:33.000 So so we can talk. 00:33:33.000 --> 00:33:36.100 You know, I'm just sort of involved at the end of the project 00:33:36.100 --> 00:33:39.600 and I get to read this great pros and and I hear all these 00:33:39.600 --> 00:33:40.800 anecdotes and things like that. 00:33:40.800 --> 00:33:46.000 So for me and you know, it really is it's a joyful project 00:33:46.000 --> 00:33:46.400 to work on. 00:33:46.400 --> 00:33:50.300 Yeah, you know, you're just you just finding out all this wonderful 00:33:50.300 --> 00:33:53.700 stuff that companies are doing okay during the judging process. 00:33:53.700 --> 00:33:57.200 Do you have discussions with other editors and you have like 00:33:57.200 --> 00:34:01.900 a Roundtable discussion or is it separated in you just put numbers 00:34:01.900 --> 00:34:05.200 in on your favorites and then it gets down belated cuz I've 00:34:05.200 --> 00:34:08.300 been on Judge and things for other part like product and electronic 00:34:08.300 --> 00:34:13.000 towards and it's sometimes there would be a jury discussion 00:34:13.000 --> 00:34:15.800 almost of of what we know who the winner should be kind of a 00:34:15.800 --> 00:34:18.200 thing or and I know you guys don't have winners and losers 00:34:18.200 --> 00:34:21.800 you just have a blast but I was there it was your NAT type 00:34:21.800 --> 00:34:22.400 of a discussion. 00:34:23.400 --> 00:34:24.900 No, they was all individual. 00:34:24.900 --> 00:34:33.200 Okay. Do you check a glass door and then then reviews like that 00:34:33.200 --> 00:34:36.400 where people can say maybe not so nice things about companies. 00:34:36.400 --> 00:34:40.200 They might they might disqualify them from the list. 00:34:40.200 --> 00:34:50.400 Okay, so why not do the project that might get some more views 00:34:50.400 --> 00:34:52.200 valid just you know, that somebody's hair. 00:34:52.200 --> 00:34:56.900 All right too much. 00:34:56.900 --> 00:35:02.000 So I think you would recommend to the viewers and readers 00:35:02.000 --> 00:35:03.800 if they were looking for a new job. 00:35:03.800 --> 00:35:09.600 Please review this this project just to get a baseline of of potential 00:35:09.600 --> 00:35:14.500 places to work, right if if if they were looking for a job to 00:35:14.500 --> 00:35:17.400 see what's a baseline for some of the you know, 00:35:17.400 --> 00:35:21.700 opportunities perks benefits learning initiatives that you might 00:35:21.700 --> 00:35:25.400 want to you know in Fire about if you're if you're interviewing 00:35:25.400 --> 00:35:27.500 with a company that you could be potentially interested 00:35:27.500 --> 00:35:34.000 in this is a great resource to like if it if you're not looking 00:35:34.000 --> 00:35:37.100 for a job like, you know, I'm I'm very happy being the host 00:35:37.100 --> 00:35:42.300 of tech talking or died today attacking I'm going to go and go 00:35:42.300 --> 00:35:44.600 you know what I think we should have a massage therapist 00:35:44.600 --> 00:35:49.800 on staff. I would love to have her in our meditation room and 00:35:49.800 --> 00:35:50.200 things like that. 00:35:50.200 --> 00:35:57.100 I actually goes into the meditation room or books an appointment 00:35:57.100 --> 00:36:01.400 with the massage therapist on an h and then like there's 00:36:01.400 --> 00:36:05.200 a demerit because they're actually taking advantage of it you 00:36:05.200 --> 00:36:11.400 never know for 30 minutes, but then you have to leave 30 minutes 00:36:11.400 --> 00:36:17.400 later. Well, yeah, I mean that that would be a that's for the 00:36:17.400 --> 00:36:19.600 other the other article that we're going to be. 00:36:23.400 --> 00:36:25.600 It's really cool project in and again, 00:36:25.600 --> 00:36:27.700 thanks for taking the time to talk with us about this today. 00:36:27.700 --> 00:36:32.600 So I would assume that we're going to be doing this for 30 31st 00:36:32.800 --> 00:36:33.700 year next year, correct? 00:36:35.200 --> 00:36:40.000 Alright, alright Beth stack hole in bed Valerie Potter. 00:36:40.000 --> 00:36:41.600 Thank you so much for being on the show today. 00:36:42.600 --> 00:36:45.900 Thank you for having us that's all the time we have for Today 00:36:45.900 --> 00:36:48.700 Show. Be sure to like this video subscribe to our Channel 00:36:48.700 --> 00:36:52.500 and I had any, to has below about what makes a great company 00:36:52.500 --> 00:36:56.000 and join us every week for new episodes of today. 00:36:56.000 --> 00:36:57.100 And Tack time keeps you out. 00:36:57.100 --> 00:36:57.800 Thanks for watching.