1 00:00:00,489 --> 00:00:06,320 - [Announcer] Defense news is proudly  sponsored by Navy Federal Credit Union.   2 00:00:06,320 --> 00:00:10,400 If you're a member of our nation's  armed forces, the Department of Defense,   3 00:00:10,400 --> 00:00:14,120 or if your family is, we'd  be proud to serve you too. 4 00:00:14,120 --> 00:00:19,920 - On this episode of "Defense News Weekly" we  bring you the pros and cons of a no fly zone   5 00:00:19,920 --> 00:00:26,320 in Ukraine. And an interview from the front lines  of its fight against Russia. Plus the B-21 Raider   6 00:00:26,320 --> 00:00:33,920 bomber starts its ground tests. And a $34 million  data contract. And finally, we get an inside look   7 00:00:33,920 --> 00:00:39,440 at an all volunteer force of drone hobbyists  fighting the Russians. It's those stories and   8 00:00:39,440 --> 00:00:57,840 more in the latest news from the Pentagon to the  Platoon, on this edition of "Defense News Weekly." 9 00:01:21,720 --> 00:01:22,720 -   10 00:01:22,720 --> 00:01:26,640 If you've followed news out of Ukraine, you've  definitely heard talks about no fly zones.   11 00:01:27,200 --> 00:01:31,520 Ukrainians are requesting one, while NATO  countries don't seem likely to set one up.   12 00:01:32,720 --> 00:01:37,760 To help us learn a little bit more about this is  retired Air Force Lieutenant General Dave Deptula,   13 00:01:37,760 --> 00:01:43,040 who was the commander overseeing the operation  Northern Watch no fly zone in northern Iraq   14 00:01:43,040 --> 00:01:49,440 in the late 1990s. There he flew 82 combat  missions as an F-15 pilot. Lieutenant General   15 00:01:49,440 --> 00:01:55,360 Deptula joins us now. Welcome, sir., Let's start  with the basics. What exactly is a no-fly zone? 16 00:01:55,360 --> 00:02:02,400 - Many folks assume that somehow a no fly  zone is a magical way to disperse an enemy   17 00:02:02,400 --> 00:02:08,800 without a bloodshed. But what I would tell you is  nothing could be further from reality. In fact,   18 00:02:09,360 --> 00:02:18,640 no fly zones, not a military half measure, but  it's a full fledged combat operation designed to   19 00:02:18,640 --> 00:02:26,400 deprive an enemy of its air power capabilities.  And therefore it involves direct and sustained   20 00:02:27,200 --> 00:02:37,840 war fighting. It essentially is the usurption  and control of the airspace, as well as   21 00:02:38,720 --> 00:02:48,480 a significant ground elements of an adversary's  air defense system. So it's not just about, as   22 00:02:48,480 --> 00:02:55,920 many people think, shooting down other airplanes.  It's also about eliminating the enemy's ability   23 00:02:56,560 --> 00:03:05,520 to shoot down the aircraft on the friendly side  that are there to enforce that no fly zone. 24 00:03:05,520 --> 00:03:12,160 - As you alluded to, it's a lot more complicated  than that. And you were the commander of operation   25 00:03:12,160 --> 00:03:19,600 Northern Watch in Northern Iraq in 1998 and 1999.  What do you have to prepare to have a no fly zone? 26 00:03:19,600 --> 00:03:25,760 - The first piece are gonna be the command  and control aircraft. These are aircraft such   27 00:03:25,760 --> 00:03:31,840 as AWACS, which is an acronym that stands  for airborne warning and control system.   28 00:03:33,200 --> 00:03:39,440 Then, there's a whole series of intelligence  surveillance and reconnaissance aircraft things   29 00:03:39,440 --> 00:03:47,120 like the Global Hawk, remotely piloted aircraft,  the RC-135, which is known as Rivet Joint.   30 00:03:47,120 --> 00:03:54,560 This collects enemy electronic signals and  communications intelligence, drones like the MQ-9,   31 00:03:54,560 --> 00:04:01,104 aircraft that can collect information and make  sure that the friendly aircraft enforcing a no   32 00:04:01,104 --> 00:04:07,200 fly zone know where the enemy is and the kinds of  systems are operating. Then there's suppression   33 00:04:07,200 --> 00:04:16,240 of enemy air defense aircraft. These are  aircraft like Navy EF-18Gs, the F-16s,   34 00:04:17,040 --> 00:04:26,240 F-22s, aircraft that can hone in on adversary  air defenses and eliminate 'em. Then there are   35 00:04:26,240 --> 00:04:32,800 the counter air aircraft. These are the ones that  people normally think about populating a no fly   36 00:04:32,800 --> 00:04:43,040 zone. This is F-22s, F-15Cs, Rafaels, Typhoons,  if we were involved in a European scenario.   37 00:04:44,080 --> 00:04:50,960 They're the ones that take on any aircraft of  the adversaries that might attempt to penetrate   38 00:04:50,960 --> 00:04:59,840 the no fly zone. Then you have a series of strike  aircraft like F-35s, F-15Es, F-16s that can attack   39 00:05:00,560 --> 00:05:05,440 elements of the enemies integrated air defense  systems. And then of course, you have your air   40 00:05:05,440 --> 00:05:12,240 refueling aircraft to keep everyone airborne.  And then a combat search and rescue capability.   41 00:05:12,240 --> 00:05:19,440 So you can see it's not a handful of airplanes of  one type. It's not just a bunch of fighters. It's   42 00:05:19,440 --> 00:05:23,600 fighters, bombers, command and control aircraft,  intelligence, surveillance, reconnaissance   43 00:05:23,600 --> 00:05:31,280 aircraft, refueling aircraft, search and  recovery aircraft. So pretty complex operation. 44 00:05:31,280 --> 00:05:32,880 - This would be effectively   45 00:05:33,440 --> 00:05:38,600 taking it one step further and having NATO  countries in combat with the Russians? 46 00:05:38,600 --> 00:05:50,240 - That's exactly right. This is full out  warfare. And if you go back to the history   47 00:05:50,960 --> 00:06:01,920 of the original no fly zones, the original  one in Iraq was stood up right after 2001,   48 00:06:01,920 --> 00:06:08,400 the cessation of hostilities, because Saddam  Hussein was persecuting the Kurds in the north.   49 00:06:09,680 --> 00:06:18,080 We were still in a state of war with Iraq. So,  we set up what was originally called operation   50 00:06:18,080 --> 00:06:26,640 "Provide Comfort" to basically prevent Saddam  from flying and killing people in northern Iraq. 51 00:06:26,640 --> 00:06:32,880 - Do you know how effective closing off the  airspace to Russian aircraft would be in Ukraine   52 00:06:32,880 --> 00:06:38,000 itself when they're being, you know they got  missile attacks from long range missiles, they got   53 00:06:38,000 --> 00:06:43,000 artillery going over the border, and all kinds of  different threats that aren't exactly a aircraft? 54 00:06:43,000 --> 00:06:50,720 - Well, it's an excellent question, and you raised  a very good point. The majority of the carnage   55 00:06:50,720 --> 00:06:58,400 that is being caused by the Russians against  Ukrainian people and their infrastructure is with   56 00:06:58,400 --> 00:07:09,280 artillery. So you're not stopping artillery with  putting a no fly zone in place. However, sort of   57 00:07:09,280 --> 00:07:16,560 the number one tenet of any successful military  operation is to secure control over the air.   58 00:07:18,000 --> 00:07:26,080 And that's where, you know, no fly zone has  become a term of use, but it is essentially,   59 00:07:27,680 --> 00:07:34,000 in this case, it would be an air supremacy  operation where you would ensure that no Russian   60 00:07:34,000 --> 00:07:42,400 aircraft could fly, or missiles, in Ukrainian  airspace. But once again, this is a full out   61 00:07:42,400 --> 00:07:50,000 combat operation, and it certainly wouldn't  halt artillery strikes, but it would enable   62 00:07:52,080 --> 00:08:01,840 the combatants, in this case Ukrainians, and if no  NATO got drawn into it, to be able to attack those   63 00:08:02,640 --> 00:08:10,080 artillery sites and forces on the ground. That's  why air superiority is so important, because it   64 00:08:10,080 --> 00:08:20,240 enables the side that has that air superiority  freedom to attack the adversary from the air. 65 00:08:20,240 --> 00:08:25,840 - And just this week, there have been plans  that that may or may not go forward of getting   66 00:08:26,640 --> 00:08:31,600 more and more planes to Ukraine, to Ukraine  fighter pilots. Are you saying that's the   67 00:08:31,600 --> 00:08:36,480 better answer is just getting more planes,  more air force to get that air superiority? 68 00:08:36,480 --> 00:08:43,760 - Well, you know, the transfer of the 28 MiG-29s  that are now in Poland to Ukraine should have been   69 00:08:43,760 --> 00:08:49,040 a no-brainer, and it should have happened without  all the fanfare that's going on in the media.   70 00:08:50,240 --> 00:08:51,760 And it should have been done quietly. 71 00:08:51,760 --> 00:08:56,240 - And general, what are some lessons learned from  your time running a no-fly zone in northern Iraq? 72 00:08:57,720 --> 00:09:05,344 - I think it's important, and I'll kind  of wrap this up, to recognize that a no   73 00:09:05,344 --> 00:09:13,360 fly zone is an air occupation of someone else's  sovereign country with attending consequences,   74 00:09:14,320 --> 00:09:22,000 and the establishment of a no-fly zone over  Ukraine would unquestionably be a major escalation   75 00:09:22,000 --> 00:09:30,240 where Ukraine would gain NATO as a co-belligerent,  but without the precursor of a formal alliance.   76 00:09:31,120 --> 00:09:36,720 So in effect, this political use of air  power would mirror the entangling alliances   77 00:09:37,280 --> 00:09:42,560 that brought Europe into World War I, and that's  something that we simply don't wanna repeat. 78 00:09:43,320 --> 00:09:48,160 - And sir, we're gonna see how, how this plays  out. This has been a fascinating conversation.   79 00:09:48,160 --> 00:09:49,120 Thanks for coming on the show. 80 00:09:49,120 --> 00:09:51,760 - You bet. Thank you, Daniel. Have a great day. 81 00:09:51,760 --> 00:09:54,800 - You too. And now we go to industry news.   82 00:10:03,360 --> 00:10:08,000 The first B-21 Raider bomber has entered the  ground test phase for its expected to rollout this   83 00:10:08,000 --> 00:10:13,040 year and subsequent first flight. Northrop Grumman  now has six of the stealthy next generation   84 00:10:13,040 --> 00:10:18,160 aircraft in various stages of production. Tom  Jones, Northrop's aeronautics systems president   85 00:10:18,160 --> 00:10:24,080 confirmed it in a statement that the first Raider  is now undergoing the ground tests. Volunteer   86 00:10:24,080 --> 00:10:29,840 Technologies recently received a $34 million order  supporting the modernization of a military network   87 00:10:29,840 --> 00:10:34,560 used to relay information across the globe.  The Program Executive Office for Intelligence   88 00:10:34,560 --> 00:10:40,000 Electronic Warfare and Sensors announced that  the Army Intelligence Data Platform deal includes   89 00:10:40,000 --> 00:10:45,840 software, training, cybersecurity, and help with  testing an initial standup of the capability.   90 00:10:47,120 --> 00:10:52,320 An American subsidiary of Rafael Advanced Defense  System received facility clearance. The Defense,   91 00:10:52,320 --> 00:10:57,360 Counterintelligence, and Security Agency granted  Rafael Systems global sustainment, the clearance   92 00:10:57,360 --> 00:11:01,440 in February. Rafael is known for technologies  that include missiles and air defense,   93 00:11:02,000 --> 00:11:06,320 that includes the Iron Dome system. The  company partnered with Raytheon on Iron Dome   94 00:11:06,320 --> 00:11:10,960 production and plants to open a production  system to build them in the United States.   95 00:11:12,240 --> 00:11:17,440 And now around the world. Nordic governments are  scaling up defense cooperation and preparedness   96 00:11:17,440 --> 00:11:22,240 planning against the backdrop of regional  tensions over Russia's invasion of Ukraine.   97 00:11:22,960 --> 00:11:26,960 The Nordic states are looking to accelerate  the deepening of joint defense measures   98 00:11:26,960 --> 00:11:30,960 that may lead to more serious discussions  around the need for a Nordic-styled solution   99 00:11:31,520 --> 00:11:36,560 modeled on the North Atlantic Treaty's Article  5, which considers an attack on one member state   100 00:11:36,560 --> 00:11:41,840 to be an attack on all states. Political leaders  in Helsinki, Stockholm, Oslo and Copenhagen   101 00:11:42,480 --> 00:11:47,120 are becoming increasingly concerned that  Ukraine may be a deliberate first step by Moscow   102 00:11:47,120 --> 00:11:52,240 to use military force to reconstruct the  Soviet Union empire that collapsed in 1991.   103 00:11:52,880 --> 00:11:56,640 Nordic suspicions, if proven accurate,  would directly threaten the sovereignty   104 00:11:56,640 --> 00:12:02,400 of neighboring NATO-aligned Baltic states  Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania. Sweden and   105 00:12:02,400 --> 00:12:07,120 Finland have traditionally walked a fine line  between lauding their close relationship to NATO,   106 00:12:07,120 --> 00:12:11,840 while maintaining that their citizens want to  keep out of the alliance. But the report cites   107 00:12:11,840 --> 00:12:17,760 recent polls showing that up to 53% of Finns now  support joining NATO, that's compared to only   108 00:12:17,760 --> 00:12:24,480 19% in support in 2017. Meanwhile, Swedes are now  41% in support of joining the alliance, compared   109 00:12:24,480 --> 00:12:31,520 to 35% since the Russians took over Crimea from  Ukraine in 2014. And that wraps up industry news   110 00:12:31,520 --> 00:12:37,840 for this week, when we return, we get a front  line update from a Ukrainian defense expert. 111 00:12:45,240 --> 00:12:46,240 -   112 00:12:46,240 --> 00:12:51,680 Welcome back to "Defense News Weekly." I'm Andrea  Scott. While NATO is currently monitoring the war   113 00:12:51,680 --> 00:12:56,800 in Ukraine, the member countries are not  getting involved. It mostly is Ukrainian   114 00:12:56,800 --> 00:13:01,840 service members and civilians who are fighting  on the front lines. Military Times senior   115 00:13:01,840 --> 00:13:07,040 managing editor Howard Altman spoke to one  Ukrainian defense expert about the conflict. 116 00:13:07,560 --> 00:13:13,360 - This is Howard Altman, senior managing  editor of Military Times. I'm here with   117 00:13:13,360 --> 00:13:19,040 Oleksandr Danylyuk, who is in Ukraine  right now. How are you doing today? 118 00:13:19,040 --> 00:13:24,640 - We are great, you know, we are fighting  for our Fatherland and we winning. 119 00:13:24,640 --> 00:13:27,851 - What do you observe there? 120 00:13:27,851 --> 00:13:36,080 - I observe, you know, that Ukrainian people,  men and women who are stopping Russian tanks and   121 00:13:36,640 --> 00:13:45,200 BTRs and BMPs, shooting Russian  helicopters, missiles, and taking prisoners.   122 00:13:46,720 --> 00:13:52,960 Yeah, and I can see that so-called Russian  military who trying to destroy our cities by   123 00:13:53,680 --> 00:14:01,200 their artillery, trying to surround our cities,  and trying to make our people starving, and   124 00:14:01,200 --> 00:14:07,680 actually, I'm not quite sure, you know, how  Nazi behaved themselves in these, you know,   125 00:14:07,680 --> 00:14:14,440 fields and forests 80 years ago, but it  seems to be very similar or even maybe worse. 126 00:14:14,440 --> 00:14:20,080 - So tell me, are you familiar with  what president Zelensky said about   127 00:14:20,080 --> 00:14:24,160 foreign fighters starting  to come to Ukraine to help? 128 00:14:24,160 --> 00:14:30,480 - I heard that actually we had  like more than three dozen thousand   129 00:14:31,280 --> 00:14:39,440 applications just two days ago. I don't  know if anybody is in Ukraine right now,   130 00:14:39,440 --> 00:14:47,120 honestly, but I know that a lot of guys, a lot  of volunteers from Japan, for instance, which is   131 00:14:47,120 --> 00:14:53,200 actually very neutral country since the Second  World War, they coming to join Ukrainian people in   132 00:14:53,200 --> 00:14:59,680 they fight for freedom and in they fight against  this global evil, which is Russian Federation. 133 00:14:59,680 --> 00:15:07,120 - Now, are you concerned that Russia,  which has a very large military,   134 00:15:07,120 --> 00:15:13,760 is going to step up their activities  and increase the amount of   135 00:15:13,760 --> 00:15:21,440 troops and the amount of missiles and  aircraft attacks on Ukraine cities? 136 00:15:21,440 --> 00:15:26,480 - I think that actually in the sense  of human power, it's highly unlikely   137 00:15:26,480 --> 00:15:32,480 because they actually concentrated almost  everything they could use against Ukraine.   138 00:15:33,280 --> 00:15:39,040 Of course, they have some reserves if they would  start using conscripts, but even professional   139 00:15:39,040 --> 00:15:46,000 soldiers, young guys like 20-21 years old, they're  completely useless. It's rather liability than a   140 00:15:46,000 --> 00:15:53,600 real striking force. So I think that actually it's  completely clear that Putin conducted suicide by   141 00:15:53,600 --> 00:16:02,080 attack on Ukraine and you know that that was  my forecast for that alleged invasion into   142 00:16:02,080 --> 00:16:09,040 Ukraine. And actually if he would decide to send  conscripts to Ukraine, it would be just additional   143 00:16:10,080 --> 00:16:18,480 reason for Russian people to overthrow this bloody  dictator sooner. So, no, I don't think that it is   144 00:16:18,480 --> 00:16:23,280 an option. And I don't think that this is  a threat. I agree that, actually, what is   145 00:16:24,080 --> 00:16:30,160 a huge problem for us right now is Russian  missiles. And despite Russia already used   146 00:16:31,280 --> 00:16:39,120 significant part of the existing missile  capabilities on Ukraine, it's like hundreds   147 00:16:39,120 --> 00:16:49,520 of Calibers and Iskanders already. And you  understand that actually this level of use of that   148 00:16:49,520 --> 00:16:56,640 missiles is usually not for attacks on neighboring  countries, but for confrontation with NATO, right?   149 00:16:56,640 --> 00:17:02,880 So actually right now, Ukraine is not just shield  of Europe but shield of NATO as well. And that's   150 00:17:02,880 --> 00:17:07,600 why, yeah, they can continue that, but I don't  know for how long they can continue that, because   151 00:17:08,240 --> 00:17:15,440 even despite they have a big stock of missiles,  it's pretty expensive and we know numbers, right?   152 00:17:15,440 --> 00:17:23,240 I mean that maybe one, two weeks of the same  intensity and Russia will have no missiles at all. 153 00:17:23,240 --> 00:17:29,680 - What would Ukraine like from  the US and its allies right now? 154 00:17:29,680 --> 00:17:34,880 - We would like to see some balls, you know,  actually. We would like to see some balls,   155 00:17:34,880 --> 00:17:42,160 we would like to see you being ready to fight  along us, because this is not just our fight,   156 00:17:42,160 --> 00:17:48,400 and that bullshit about nuclear threat, it's  completely clear that Putin is mad and it is   157 00:17:48,400 --> 00:17:54,720 completely clear that Putin is mad, at least,  you know, since 2014, then he annexed Crimea.   158 00:17:54,720 --> 00:18:02,400 And actually it means that he can and he  will use nukes if we don't stop him, right?   159 00:18:03,120 --> 00:18:06,080 And we have to stop him all together. And actually   160 00:18:06,720 --> 00:18:14,640 Ukrainians will definitely do it. And right now  the additional support, no fly zone in Ukraine,   161 00:18:19,040 --> 00:18:28,000 anti-missile protection, this is what we need  and actually do something, you know, be serious,   162 00:18:28,000 --> 00:18:35,920 because all of that killed Ukrainian kids, this  is, of course, they are victims of Putin and his   163 00:18:36,480 --> 00:18:43,080 Nazi policy. But the lack of balls is  also a part of the reasons, you know. 164 00:18:43,080 --> 00:18:51,520 - And do you think US troops should be on  the ground in Ukraine? Defense secretary   165 00:18:51,520 --> 00:18:54,880 and the president have both said  that is not going to happen. 166 00:18:54,880 --> 00:18:59,040 - So I think that right now what  we can do and what we should do,   167 00:18:59,040 --> 00:19:05,200 we have to change the rules for  security council, UN security council,   168 00:19:05,200 --> 00:19:10,240 and it should be completely clear that if the  country is an aggressor and if the country   169 00:19:11,680 --> 00:19:19,760 is conducting war crimes and killing kids and  civilians and conducting genocide, this country   170 00:19:20,720 --> 00:19:25,840 have any veto right. And it means that actually  it could be just in two days, then we would   171 00:19:25,840 --> 00:19:35,040 have that mandate for UN peacekeeping mission in  Ukraine. And we can actually send that mission to   172 00:19:35,040 --> 00:19:40,800 Ukraine immediately. And it's just a matter who  would love to join that mission, right? So it's   173 00:19:40,800 --> 00:19:48,320 completely clear that it is possible. And again,  it's not US forces, it's not NATO forces. This is   174 00:19:48,320 --> 00:19:57,000 UN forces like in Korea and it is possible to do,  but it requires, you know, some balls, some balls. 175 00:19:57,000 --> 00:20:00,880 - Sasha, thank you so very much. stay safe   176 00:20:01,600 --> 00:20:04,960 and stay in touch. I'll be  talking to you. Hope we see you- 177 00:20:06,840 --> 00:20:08,142 - Thank you, my friend. Thank you, Howard. 178 00:20:08,142 --> 00:20:19,840 - Thanks, Howard. When we return, personal finance  expert Jeanette Mack gives you her latest tips.   179 00:20:21,680 --> 00:20:24,880 Welcome back. On this addition  of "Money Minute," Navy Federal   180 00:20:24,880 --> 00:20:29,000 Credit Union personal finance expert  Jeanette Mack gives her latest tips. 181 00:20:29,000 --> 00:20:33,840 - The way we use our phones today, it should  be no surprise that phone scams are what's   182 00:20:33,840 --> 00:20:38,880 called voice phishing is on the rise. Fraudsters  will call pretending to be from your financial   183 00:20:38,880 --> 00:20:43,680 institution or even the Social Security  Administration phishing for personal info.   184 00:20:43,680 --> 00:20:48,080 They do this by using phone numbers from your  area code to trick you into believing the call   185 00:20:48,080 --> 00:20:52,880 is real so you'll pick up. Getting these calls  can be annoying and nerve wracking, but knowing   186 00:20:52,880 --> 00:20:58,560 how to recognize them can stop fraudsters in their  tracks. Phishing calls follow a similar pattern.   187 00:20:58,560 --> 00:21:02,960 So if you get a call from someone representing  your bank or credit union saying there's been   188 00:21:02,960 --> 00:21:09,200 suspicious activity on your account, asking you to  provide a six digit passcode, hang up immediately.   189 00:21:09,200 --> 00:21:14,640 Never provide any passcodes unless you've called  in personally. And keep in mind, your financial   190 00:21:14,640 --> 00:21:20,320 institution will never call or text asking for  personal info. And you should never be or feel   191 00:21:20,320 --> 00:21:25,360 pressured into downloading an app or resetting  your personal info online. This is how fraudsters   192 00:21:25,360 --> 00:21:30,720 can take over your account. Always call to verify  the need to make changes to your account settings   193 00:21:30,720 --> 00:21:35,840 before you do it. It's good to be skeptical of  requests like this to keep your personal info   194 00:21:35,840 --> 00:21:40,640 private and secure until you've made the call  yourself to a representative from your financial   195 00:21:40,640 --> 00:21:45,840 institution. Or you can always go to your nearest  branch. By reporting phishing to your bank or   196 00:21:45,840 --> 00:21:50,400 credit union, you're doing your part in helping  prevent others from being victims of fraud. 197 00:21:50,400 --> 00:21:54,480 - Thanks, Jeanette, we'll see you next  week. To get more of our coverage,   198 00:21:54,480 --> 00:21:59,440 be sure to check out our headlines online  at armynavyairforceandmarinecorpstimes.com   199 00:21:59,440 --> 00:22:04,640 and defensenews.com. To get a list of our top  stores in your inbox every weekday, subscribe   200 00:22:04,640 --> 00:22:09,920 to our early bird brief, and make sure to follow  us on Facebook, Twitter, and YouTube. And when we   201 00:22:09,920 --> 00:22:15,120 return, we get an inside look at volunteer  drone pilots helping Ukraine fight Russia.   202 00:22:23,360 --> 00:22:28,320 Welcome back. I'm Andrea Scott.  Civilians are taking up arms in Ukraine,   203 00:22:28,320 --> 00:22:32,800 but drones? Yeah, those too.  Here's a look inside their efforts 204 00:22:32,800 --> 00:22:37,440 - [Narrator] A month ago, Ukrainian drone  pilots were flying for hobby and business.   205 00:22:38,000 --> 00:22:44,320 Now, they're flying into war. One business  owner, Taras Troiak sells drones. He   206 00:22:44,320 --> 00:22:49,120 sold out of the 300 in his inventory.  They're still coming in as donations. 207 00:22:49,120 --> 00:22:56,400 - We supply every day around 100  drones. And that charity they supply to   208 00:22:57,040 --> 00:23:00,800 end users as civilian users, military users,   209 00:23:01,360 --> 00:23:08,800 those drones, and everybody starts to use  drones to find some enemies in our country. And   210 00:23:10,240 --> 00:23:18,240 it's helpful. And I know many examples  when it saved life of our Ukrainian people. 211 00:23:18,240 --> 00:23:21,840 - [Narrator] The remote pilots are currently  using the drones for reconnaissance. 212 00:23:21,840 --> 00:23:29,200 - We have drones use thermal cameras from  DJI and from another brands as well that used   213 00:23:29,200 --> 00:23:35,840 at night. So we see the soldiers at  night. We see the tanks at night.   214 00:23:36,800 --> 00:23:45,600 And they all will be dead if they will not go back  to Russia. And for sure, it's scary to use a drone   215 00:23:48,800 --> 00:23:55,840 in Ukraine right now because it's a huge risk for  your life that you will be detected and destroyed   216 00:23:55,840 --> 00:24:02,080 by them. So you have to follow  some rules to avoid to be detected. 217 00:24:02,080 --> 00:24:06,400 - [Narrator] Drones have been used  as weapons before encountering them   218 00:24:06,400 --> 00:24:11,200 can prove difficult. Peter Warner  Singer is the author of "Wired for War." 219 00:24:11,200 --> 00:24:18,080 - So some of that, for example, DJI drones, they  don't go over 40 miles per hour. You're not gonna   220 00:24:18,080 --> 00:24:22,400 use a fighter jet to shoot it down. It'd be  hard even for a helicopter. They're also,   221 00:24:22,400 --> 00:24:29,600 you know, they're like literally this big. So  the responses to them range from old school   222 00:24:30,160 --> 00:24:36,880 using guns of some kind to what the  US military turned to was a variety of   223 00:24:36,880 --> 00:24:44,000 jammers, basically trying to go after either the  signal that's controlling the drone from the human   224 00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:50,720 operator on the ground, or going after the system  itself, kind of overwhelming its electronics.   225 00:24:50,720 --> 00:24:57,920 And reportedly, the Russians have that kind of  technology. They've also on this jammer side,   226 00:24:57,920 --> 00:25:06,880 we've seen images of in their convoys civilian  vehicles that are not just about drone jamming,   227 00:25:06,880 --> 00:25:11,200 they're cell phone jamming. And we think  this is gonna be one of the things that   228 00:25:11,200 --> 00:25:15,520 they deploy into these cities as they also  deploy the rest of their tanks and the like. 229 00:25:18,120 --> 00:25:23,040 - And that's all we have time for this week.  Please visit us on militarytimes.com and   230 00:25:23,040 --> 00:25:27,840 defensenews.com for more coverage. Thank you  for joining us, and we'll see you next week.