1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:01,420 - And the smartest decision 2 00:00:01,420 --> 00:00:04,360 I've ever made in my investing career, 3 00:00:04,360 --> 00:00:07,517 that included some luck, is I said, 4 00:00:07,517 --> 00:00:10,620 "Let's invest in this thing called the internet." 5 00:00:10,620 --> 00:00:12,610 - I'm Prerna Gupta, a tech founder, 6 00:00:12,610 --> 00:00:13,640 and in this series, 7 00:00:13,640 --> 00:00:16,400 I'll explore how exceptional people succeed 8 00:00:16,400 --> 00:00:18,450 by following their hero's journey. 9 00:00:18,450 --> 00:00:20,830 Hi, Ron, welcome to Hero's Journey, 10 00:00:20,830 --> 00:00:23,180 and thanks for joining. 11 00:00:23,180 --> 00:00:24,460 - [Ron] Good morning. 12 00:00:24,460 --> 00:00:27,380 - So you're known as the Godfather of Silicon Valley, 13 00:00:27,380 --> 00:00:29,780 and you've been a hero to hundreds of founders 14 00:00:29,780 --> 00:00:31,750 in your career, including me. 15 00:00:31,750 --> 00:00:33,720 How did you get into Angel investing, 16 00:00:33,720 --> 00:00:35,593 and what was your first unicorn? 17 00:00:37,220 --> 00:00:42,220 - So, I got into Angel investing a long, long time ago, 18 00:00:43,740 --> 00:00:45,670 30 years ago, 19 00:00:45,670 --> 00:00:50,670 but before that I had started, and run three companies, 20 00:00:51,920 --> 00:00:56,860 one of which went public, that was Altos Computer. 21 00:00:56,860 --> 00:01:00,240 And one of the board members of Altos Computer 22 00:01:00,240 --> 00:01:04,900 was Don Valentine, the founder of Sequoia. 23 00:01:04,900 --> 00:01:07,920 And ultimately, we sold Altos Computer 24 00:01:08,860 --> 00:01:12,960 after many years after it had gone public, 25 00:01:12,960 --> 00:01:16,780 but we sold it to the Acer Group in Taiwan, 26 00:01:16,780 --> 00:01:20,150 and so I had a chance to have a fresh start, 27 00:01:20,150 --> 00:01:22,970 and I had become friends with Don Valentine 28 00:01:23,980 --> 00:01:26,710 who was then running Sequoia Capital 29 00:01:26,710 --> 00:01:28,870 with just one other partner. 30 00:01:28,870 --> 00:01:32,720 Sequoia Capital was a tiny, tiny firm at the time. 31 00:01:32,720 --> 00:01:35,550 And Don said, "What do you wanna do next?" 32 00:01:35,550 --> 00:01:39,407 And I said, "Well, at Altos, 33 00:01:39,407 --> 00:01:43,077 "I was managing a couple of thousand people, 34 00:01:43,077 --> 00:01:46,667 "and I found out I don't like managing people, 35 00:01:46,667 --> 00:01:50,250 "even though everyone at Altos said I was a good manager." 36 00:01:50,250 --> 00:01:53,567 And he said, "Wow, if you don't like managing people, 37 00:01:53,567 --> 00:01:56,377 "but you like being around startups, 38 00:01:56,377 --> 00:02:00,557 "why don't you consider being an Angel investor, 39 00:02:00,557 --> 00:02:03,867 "where you just give founders advice, 40 00:02:03,867 --> 00:02:06,890 "but you're not managing the founder?" 41 00:02:06,890 --> 00:02:10,060 And I said, "My God, that sounds like a great idea." 42 00:02:10,060 --> 00:02:13,997 He said, "Fine, come sit on some boards with me, 43 00:02:13,997 --> 00:02:17,087 "and watch how I mentor founders, 44 00:02:17,087 --> 00:02:20,203 "and if you like that, you can start, 45 00:02:21,637 --> 00:02:23,717 "I'll give you deal flow, 46 00:02:23,717 --> 00:02:27,867 "and you can start Angel investing a little bit of money, 47 00:02:27,867 --> 00:02:29,387 "a little bit of your own money, 48 00:02:29,387 --> 00:02:32,150 "and advising founders." 49 00:02:32,150 --> 00:02:34,990 I started that 30 years ago, 50 00:02:34,990 --> 00:02:37,750 and I've been completely in love with it. 51 00:02:37,750 --> 00:02:40,510 And that's what I still do today, 52 00:02:40,510 --> 00:02:43,220 is we invest a little bit of money in companies, 53 00:02:43,220 --> 00:02:47,010 and we mentor founders, and we watch them succeed. 54 00:02:47,010 --> 00:02:52,010 If they fail, we help them to fail in an orderly fashion. 55 00:02:55,100 --> 00:03:00,100 And one of the best decisions I ever made way back then 56 00:03:00,920 --> 00:03:04,920 was I wanted to invest in a segment. 57 00:03:04,920 --> 00:03:07,460 I just didn't wanna invest in everything. 58 00:03:07,460 --> 00:03:09,430 And the smartest decision I've ever made 59 00:03:09,430 --> 00:03:13,800 in my investing career, that included some luck, 60 00:03:13,800 --> 00:03:18,007 is I said, "Let's invest in this thing called the internet. 61 00:03:18,007 --> 00:03:22,740 "It looks brand, brand new." 62 00:03:22,740 --> 00:03:25,380 The word internet wasn't even spoken that often, 63 00:03:25,380 --> 00:03:26,627 but I said, 64 00:03:26,627 --> 00:03:31,627 "If I'm right, this is gonna be a field that explodes, 65 00:03:31,647 --> 00:03:35,690 "and I wanna be investing in a segment that explodes." 66 00:03:35,690 --> 00:03:38,930 What is so interesting is 30 years later, 67 00:03:38,930 --> 00:03:41,393 the internet is still exploding. 68 00:03:42,430 --> 00:03:43,750 It's the early days. 69 00:03:43,750 --> 00:03:48,750 And then we have this new industry called crypto 70 00:03:48,950 --> 00:03:53,950 that is basically the next internet, so to speak, 71 00:03:54,140 --> 00:03:56,560 and has all the characteristics of that. 72 00:03:56,560 --> 00:03:59,690 So, I'm lucky that I get to witness both. 73 00:03:59,690 --> 00:04:04,650 So, SV Angel, you know, we invest in one company a week, 74 00:04:04,650 --> 00:04:06,420 but we stick to our knitting. 75 00:04:06,420 --> 00:04:10,520 The vast majority of our investments are internet software, 76 00:04:10,520 --> 00:04:13,860 but now we're also dabbling in crypto. 77 00:04:13,860 --> 00:04:16,593 Now I wanna flip back to your other question. 78 00:04:17,677 --> 00:04:21,590 You know, what was our first unicorn? 79 00:04:21,590 --> 00:04:26,590 And our first two unicorns had something to do with search. 80 00:04:27,740 --> 00:04:30,120 The first one was Ask Jeeves, 81 00:04:30,120 --> 00:04:33,260 one of the very original search engines -- 82 00:04:33,260 --> 00:04:34,550 And Ask Jeeves -- - I remember that. 83 00:04:34,550 --> 00:04:39,047 Yes, Ask Jeeves had a very successful IPO, 84 00:04:41,300 --> 00:04:43,130 years before Google, 85 00:04:43,130 --> 00:04:47,660 Ask Jeeves was founded before Google was even thought of, 86 00:04:47,660 --> 00:04:52,550 but Ask Jeeves taught SV Angel about the search industry, 87 00:04:52,550 --> 00:04:55,220 and when we met Larry and Sergei, 88 00:04:55,220 --> 00:04:59,490 and they talked about this simple idea 89 00:04:59,490 --> 00:05:02,750 of searching by page rank, 90 00:05:02,750 --> 00:05:05,960 for example, if a lot of people go there, 91 00:05:05,960 --> 00:05:09,970 there must be something interesting going on there. 92 00:05:09,970 --> 00:05:12,630 So when other people do the same search, 93 00:05:12,630 --> 00:05:16,480 let's send them to where other people have gravitated. 94 00:05:16,480 --> 00:05:20,483 That was the simplest form of the Google algorithm, 95 00:05:21,460 --> 00:05:25,158 at the time, funny enough called BackRub 96 00:05:25,158 --> 00:05:27,400 was the nickname of it. 97 00:05:27,400 --> 00:05:31,320 So our first two big, big unicorns 98 00:05:31,320 --> 00:05:32,930 were in the search space. 99 00:05:32,930 --> 00:05:33,763 Then of course, 100 00:05:33,763 --> 00:05:38,600 we had PayPal in the very early days, as well. 101 00:05:39,530 --> 00:05:40,690 But as you know, 102 00:05:40,690 --> 00:05:45,690 these unicorns come few and far between, 103 00:05:45,718 --> 00:05:48,113 but we've been very fortunate. 104 00:05:49,360 --> 00:05:52,420 - Well, you've been very, very successful. 105 00:05:52,420 --> 00:05:54,280 You clearly have a special talent 106 00:05:54,280 --> 00:05:55,950 in identifying these winners, 107 00:05:55,950 --> 00:05:58,720 and really, you know, as a seed investor, 108 00:05:58,720 --> 00:06:03,320 your job is exactly that, it's to identify future heroes, 109 00:06:03,320 --> 00:06:05,860 the visionary founders of tomorrow, 110 00:06:05,860 --> 00:06:09,530 before anyone else has figured out that you know, 111 00:06:09,530 --> 00:06:11,830 that their startup will be successful, 112 00:06:11,830 --> 00:06:14,040 and before anyone really believes in them. 113 00:06:14,040 --> 00:06:17,023 How can you tell when a founder is special? 114 00:06:18,250 --> 00:06:22,750 - Well, we can tell when a founder is special, 115 00:06:22,750 --> 00:06:25,143 when we meet people like you. 116 00:06:27,250 --> 00:06:32,250 When we meet a founder, well, it's all about the people. 117 00:06:32,330 --> 00:06:34,940 Number one, it's all about the people, 118 00:06:34,940 --> 00:06:39,940 we invest in the people first, the idea is second, 119 00:06:41,650 --> 00:06:45,863 and it's second, way down the line. 120 00:06:46,760 --> 00:06:50,750 We really look at the human being, 121 00:06:50,750 --> 00:06:53,460 and we look to see if the founder, 122 00:06:53,460 --> 00:06:56,283 if they're solving a practical problem, 123 00:06:58,260 --> 00:07:01,430 if they're really determined and passionate 124 00:07:01,430 --> 00:07:06,430 about their idea, and I know those are like catchphrases, 125 00:07:06,670 --> 00:07:09,040 but when you're talking to a founder, 126 00:07:09,040 --> 00:07:14,040 you can see the passion, you can see the determination. 127 00:07:15,940 --> 00:07:20,760 Then the next thing I ask is, okay, 128 00:07:20,760 --> 00:07:24,373 I like the idea, they're solving a practical need, 129 00:07:25,290 --> 00:07:29,030 but that's not as important as the human being. 130 00:07:29,030 --> 00:07:34,030 But then I look at, hey, can this founder communicate well? 131 00:07:34,482 --> 00:07:39,482 Can they evangelize the idea well enough? 132 00:07:39,650 --> 00:07:42,130 Why do I ask that question? 133 00:07:42,130 --> 00:07:44,980 Because that founder, the next big thing, 134 00:07:44,980 --> 00:07:48,650 after they do the prototype and they get traction, 135 00:07:48,650 --> 00:07:50,860 they have to hire more engineers. 136 00:07:50,860 --> 00:07:55,620 So I'm always thinking, will this founder be able to, 137 00:07:55,620 --> 00:07:57,740 are they outgoing just enough, 138 00:07:57,740 --> 00:08:00,470 'cause a lot of technical founders aren't outgoing, 139 00:08:00,470 --> 00:08:04,090 but are they outgoing enough that they can go recruit 140 00:08:04,090 --> 00:08:08,970 engineers and get engineers to leave their cushy job 141 00:08:08,970 --> 00:08:13,630 that they're probably at, and move to a tiny startup. 142 00:08:13,630 --> 00:08:17,550 So I look for that too, that they're gonna be, 143 00:08:17,550 --> 00:08:22,550 have enough chutzpah to attract people out of their company, 144 00:08:25,440 --> 00:08:26,780 out of their existing company. 145 00:08:26,780 --> 00:08:29,280 And that's enthusiasm, 146 00:08:29,280 --> 00:08:31,090 that's being able to communicate 147 00:08:31,090 --> 00:08:33,300 how great their company is, 148 00:08:33,300 --> 00:08:37,810 being able to communicate the vision of where we're going. 149 00:08:37,810 --> 00:08:39,060 And with that, 150 00:08:39,060 --> 00:08:42,210 that founder will be able to recruit lots of engineers, 151 00:08:42,210 --> 00:08:44,710 and that's the next big step. 152 00:08:44,710 --> 00:08:49,453 And we also look for nice people, nice people win, 153 00:08:50,450 --> 00:08:53,700 and you have all those traits. 154 00:08:53,700 --> 00:08:55,490 - Well, thank you. 155 00:08:55,490 --> 00:08:57,780 I'm humbled for you to say that about me, 156 00:08:57,780 --> 00:08:59,200 and I know that you have invested 157 00:08:59,200 --> 00:09:03,000 in very, very brilliant and very successful founders. 158 00:09:03,000 --> 00:09:07,310 And it's an honor to be included in that group. 159 00:09:07,310 --> 00:09:09,232 - Yeah, and remember -- - It's also -- 160 00:09:09,232 --> 00:09:12,570 for every founder we invest in, 161 00:09:12,570 --> 00:09:14,943 we have looked at another 10 or 20, 162 00:09:15,790 --> 00:09:20,790 because we have a whole system for picking the founders 163 00:09:23,330 --> 00:09:24,710 that we have a phone call with, 164 00:09:24,710 --> 00:09:26,750 and then the founders we have a meeting with, 165 00:09:26,750 --> 00:09:29,040 in the last two years that's been a Zoom meeting, 166 00:09:29,040 --> 00:09:30,740 which is not the same, 167 00:09:30,740 --> 00:09:32,680 nothing like face-to-face, 168 00:09:32,680 --> 00:09:35,353 and watching the real body language, 169 00:09:36,670 --> 00:09:39,460 but keep in mind for every founder we invest in, 170 00:09:39,460 --> 00:09:41,693 we've looked at 10 or 20 others. 171 00:09:42,880 --> 00:09:43,713 - Yeah. 172 00:09:43,713 --> 00:09:46,460 Well you've clearly gotten it down to a science, 173 00:09:46,460 --> 00:09:49,840 and it's, I mean, if you look at your portfolio, 174 00:09:49,840 --> 00:09:52,090 it's truly mind blowing. 175 00:09:52,090 --> 00:09:55,240 I mean, you've invested in over 700 startups, 176 00:09:55,240 --> 00:09:57,790 and had an incredible number of wins. 177 00:09:57,790 --> 00:10:01,710 You're one of the most successful investors of all time. 178 00:10:01,710 --> 00:10:03,090 But as you mentioned, 179 00:10:03,090 --> 00:10:05,500 startup investing is a game of outliers, 180 00:10:05,500 --> 00:10:09,810 which means most of your investments will fail. 181 00:10:09,810 --> 00:10:12,530 How do you think about founders who fail? 182 00:10:12,530 --> 00:10:14,650 What's your opinion about founders who fail, 183 00:10:14,650 --> 00:10:16,853 and do you ever bet on them again? 184 00:10:18,750 --> 00:10:20,980 - SV Angel for sure 185 00:10:24,860 --> 00:10:27,120 bets on founders that fail. 186 00:10:27,120 --> 00:10:31,680 So it depends on how they fail, 187 00:10:31,680 --> 00:10:34,463 and how they behave during the failure. 188 00:10:36,100 --> 00:10:41,100 But keep in mind, a majority of the founders do fail. 189 00:10:41,340 --> 00:10:46,340 So what we're talking about right now is the majority case, 190 00:10:46,380 --> 00:10:50,453 60% of all companies fail, 191 00:10:52,150 --> 00:10:56,120 but we admire any founder who has the courage 192 00:10:56,120 --> 00:10:57,840 to start a company, 193 00:10:57,840 --> 00:11:02,840 starting a company is the gutsiest thing you'll ever do. 194 00:11:03,937 --> 00:11:08,820 I did it myself without this computer. 195 00:11:08,820 --> 00:11:10,503 It is hard. 196 00:11:11,660 --> 00:11:15,030 You know, people trivialize founders, 197 00:11:15,030 --> 00:11:19,250 no one, except the founders know how much work it is. 198 00:11:19,250 --> 00:11:22,820 It is harder work than any other career. 199 00:11:22,820 --> 00:11:24,270 So we respect founders. 200 00:11:24,270 --> 00:11:28,113 So if they're failing, we, 201 00:11:29,020 --> 00:11:32,790 and sometimes the outsider will see it first. 202 00:11:32,790 --> 00:11:33,930 So if they're failing, 203 00:11:33,930 --> 00:11:37,397 sometimes we'll tap the founder on the shoulder and say, 204 00:11:37,397 --> 00:11:42,397 "Excuse me, but do you realize things aren't going well?" 205 00:11:42,860 --> 00:11:45,367 And if the founder quickly admits, 206 00:11:45,367 --> 00:11:48,057 "Hey, you're right things aren't going well, 207 00:11:48,057 --> 00:11:49,077 "can you help me? 208 00:11:49,077 --> 00:11:53,540 "Should I morph the company into some other space?" 209 00:11:53,540 --> 00:11:55,940 and many companies do that. 210 00:11:55,940 --> 00:11:59,350 And they morph into a more successful space, 211 00:11:59,350 --> 00:12:02,110 which is just awesome to see, 212 00:12:02,110 --> 00:12:05,540 but some founders, it's just not gonna work. 213 00:12:05,540 --> 00:12:07,710 And then we advise them 214 00:12:07,710 --> 00:12:11,240 on what is the fair thing to do for your team, 215 00:12:11,240 --> 00:12:14,020 and the fair thing to do for the team 216 00:12:14,020 --> 00:12:17,260 is what we call an orderly shut down. 217 00:12:17,260 --> 00:12:19,807 You know, don't walk in one day and say, 218 00:12:19,807 --> 00:12:21,357 "We're out of money. 219 00:12:21,357 --> 00:12:23,300 "I can't even pay you two weeks." 220 00:12:23,300 --> 00:12:26,530 That's a founder we probably won't invest in again. 221 00:12:26,530 --> 00:12:29,990 But if a founder admits it's not going well, 222 00:12:29,990 --> 00:12:33,030 starts to think about their team first, 223 00:12:33,030 --> 00:12:35,490 and I'm gonna make this orderly for the team. 224 00:12:35,490 --> 00:12:38,020 Everybody's getting two weeks pay. 225 00:12:38,020 --> 00:12:40,630 We're gonna help everyone get placed. 226 00:12:40,630 --> 00:12:43,140 That's a founder who's a great human being. 227 00:12:43,140 --> 00:12:46,020 We want to invest in that founder again. 228 00:12:46,020 --> 00:12:49,520 Remember Napster, Napster failed, 229 00:12:49,520 --> 00:12:51,580 Napster went out of business. 230 00:12:51,580 --> 00:12:53,830 Sean Parker and Sean Fanning 231 00:12:53,830 --> 00:12:56,090 went on to start other companies. 232 00:12:56,090 --> 00:12:59,870 Sean Parker became the President of Facebook. 233 00:12:59,870 --> 00:13:03,410 So failed founders are not failed founders, 234 00:13:03,410 --> 00:13:06,820 failed founders are founders in transition. 235 00:13:06,820 --> 00:13:11,580 And we love to support those founders. 236 00:13:11,580 --> 00:13:14,570 - That's very inspiring, and you know, 237 00:13:14,570 --> 00:13:18,230 and I think it speaks so much to who you are as a person, 238 00:13:18,230 --> 00:13:20,750 and why you've been so important 239 00:13:20,750 --> 00:13:22,470 in the lives of so many founders. 240 00:13:22,470 --> 00:13:25,790 And you know, one thing that you mentioned a few times is 241 00:13:25,790 --> 00:13:29,390 you like to invest in founders who behave ethically, 242 00:13:29,390 --> 00:13:32,960 who are good people, who are nice, you know, 243 00:13:32,960 --> 00:13:35,010 I guess, tell me a little bit more about that, 244 00:13:35,010 --> 00:13:37,940 because in a lot of ways, in business, 245 00:13:37,940 --> 00:13:41,740 obviously businesses cutthroat and you know, you have to be, 246 00:13:41,740 --> 00:13:43,230 you know, you have to be 247 00:13:43,230 --> 00:13:46,050 a little bit cutthroat sometimes to succeed. 248 00:13:46,050 --> 00:13:47,860 And, but there, as a founder, 249 00:13:47,860 --> 00:13:50,700 you're making a decision every day to be ethical, 250 00:13:50,700 --> 00:13:52,900 or to cross the line. 251 00:13:52,900 --> 00:13:55,210 Why do you believe that it's important 252 00:13:55,210 --> 00:13:57,040 to be ethical and be a good person, 253 00:13:57,040 --> 00:13:59,600 and why do you think that good people can still win 254 00:13:59,600 --> 00:14:03,050 in a world that's full of people in business 255 00:14:03,050 --> 00:14:05,000 who are crossing the line? 256 00:14:05,000 --> 00:14:06,010 - Yeah. 257 00:14:06,010 --> 00:14:08,720 Well, I believe in karma and I believe 258 00:14:08,720 --> 00:14:11,240 in what goes around, comes around. 259 00:14:11,240 --> 00:14:16,240 And I believe that you don't have to be nasty cutthroat 260 00:14:17,920 --> 00:14:21,830 to win, in business, you have to be aggressive, 261 00:14:21,830 --> 00:14:25,903 you have to be proactive, you have to state your case. 262 00:14:26,978 --> 00:14:31,320 If one of your competitors is telling a bold face lie, 263 00:14:31,320 --> 00:14:33,260 you have to call that out. 264 00:14:33,260 --> 00:14:36,330 That's part of being proactive and aggressive, 265 00:14:36,330 --> 00:14:39,740 but you, you don't have to be cutthroat to the point, 266 00:14:39,740 --> 00:14:44,160 where you sacrifice any ethics or morals. 267 00:14:44,160 --> 00:14:47,850 'Cause remember, if you do that, your team 268 00:14:47,850 --> 00:14:49,783 is gonna lose respect for you. 269 00:14:52,030 --> 00:14:57,030 Team members are looking for a founder who is a leader, 270 00:14:57,450 --> 00:15:01,570 who is aggressive, who wants to conquer the space 271 00:15:01,570 --> 00:15:03,680 and conquer the world, 272 00:15:03,680 --> 00:15:07,750 but they wanna do it with aggressive, 273 00:15:07,750 --> 00:15:10,940 legitimate business practices. 274 00:15:10,940 --> 00:15:14,283 Because when you do that, your company gains respect, 275 00:15:15,170 --> 00:15:19,230 and you'll succeed even faster. 276 00:15:19,230 --> 00:15:24,230 I mean, look at Airbnb, and Twitter, and Square, 277 00:15:24,750 --> 00:15:27,520 these are companies that are led by founders 278 00:15:27,520 --> 00:15:31,710 who have a strong, moral, ethical compass, 279 00:15:31,710 --> 00:15:34,380 and look how successful they are, 280 00:15:34,380 --> 00:15:37,800 and they deserve that success. 281 00:15:37,800 --> 00:15:39,920 - Yeah, I couldn't agree more. 282 00:15:39,920 --> 00:15:43,010 Well on that topic, you know, there's been, you know, 283 00:15:43,010 --> 00:15:45,320 we're obviously both in the tech industry, 284 00:15:45,320 --> 00:15:49,190 and I think we both know so many people 285 00:15:49,190 --> 00:15:50,660 who are the leaders of these companies 286 00:15:50,660 --> 00:15:52,870 that are truly, truly good people, 287 00:15:52,870 --> 00:15:55,060 but in the press and in the media, 288 00:15:55,060 --> 00:15:57,960 there has been such a strong anti-tech sentiment 289 00:15:57,960 --> 00:16:00,660 that has developed over the past few years. 290 00:16:00,660 --> 00:16:02,060 And, you know, 291 00:16:02,060 --> 00:16:04,960 I understand it to some level, but it also puzzles me, 292 00:16:04,960 --> 00:16:07,210 if you think about any major industry, 293 00:16:07,210 --> 00:16:08,900 that's come up in our society, 294 00:16:08,900 --> 00:16:12,620 whether it's finance, oil and energy, food, and agriculture, 295 00:16:12,620 --> 00:16:13,680 consumer goods, you know, 296 00:16:13,680 --> 00:16:15,820 every industry you name has had 297 00:16:15,820 --> 00:16:17,830 both positive and negative impacts. 298 00:16:17,830 --> 00:16:21,460 And that's natural when a big industry comes up 299 00:16:21,460 --> 00:16:23,270 and disrupts all of our lives. 300 00:16:23,270 --> 00:16:24,660 It's also natural and important 301 00:16:24,660 --> 00:16:26,650 I think for us to have an open conversation 302 00:16:26,650 --> 00:16:28,400 about the negative externalities, 303 00:16:28,400 --> 00:16:32,320 and figure out what to do about it as a society. 304 00:16:32,320 --> 00:16:35,180 But why do you think there has been 305 00:16:35,180 --> 00:16:39,230 such a disproportionately strong negative reaction 306 00:16:39,230 --> 00:16:42,620 to tech and this anti-tech sentiment developing? 307 00:16:42,620 --> 00:16:44,253 And do you think it's warranted? 308 00:16:45,543 --> 00:16:48,040 - Well, I agree with you, 309 00:16:48,040 --> 00:16:52,410 the anti-tech sentiment has been brewing, 310 00:16:52,410 --> 00:16:57,410 I would say pretty strong for about three years now. 311 00:16:57,620 --> 00:17:02,620 And I think the heart of it, whether we like it or not, 312 00:17:04,080 --> 00:17:08,880 it comes down to one word is the core cause of this, 313 00:17:11,040 --> 00:17:13,800 and we have not gotten our arms around it yet. 314 00:17:13,800 --> 00:17:18,793 And the M word is misinformation. 315 00:17:20,883 --> 00:17:25,883 The tech companies at large have been dealing with the issue 316 00:17:27,300 --> 00:17:32,300 of misinformation for about three years now. 317 00:17:33,030 --> 00:17:37,850 And I don't believe we have our arms around it. 318 00:17:37,850 --> 00:17:42,850 I think all the CEOs agree we don't have our arms around it, 319 00:17:44,490 --> 00:17:48,000 but we have not figured out a solution yet. 320 00:17:48,000 --> 00:17:50,670 We're right now, I think, 321 00:17:50,670 --> 00:17:55,670 unfortunately at the height of the finger-pointing stage 322 00:17:56,150 --> 00:17:59,870 of recognizing this problem of the people 323 00:17:59,870 --> 00:18:01,457 in Washington DC saying, 324 00:18:01,457 --> 00:18:06,457 "You are awful, please figure out misinformation." 325 00:18:06,570 --> 00:18:09,407 and then the tech company's saying, you know, 326 00:18:09,407 --> 00:18:12,180 "We're trying to figure out misinformation." 327 00:18:12,180 --> 00:18:13,697 and Washington DC saying, 328 00:18:13,697 --> 00:18:16,640 "You're not figuring it out fast enough." 329 00:18:16,640 --> 00:18:20,590 And I think in the end, 330 00:18:20,590 --> 00:18:25,590 what is going to have to happen is Washington DC 331 00:18:26,000 --> 00:18:30,060 and the tech industry are gonna have to come together. 332 00:18:30,060 --> 00:18:32,720 They're gonna have to leave the finger-pointing stage. 333 00:18:32,720 --> 00:18:34,260 They're gonna have to come together 334 00:18:34,260 --> 00:18:37,918 in a really constructive way, 335 00:18:37,918 --> 00:18:41,920 and have the misinformation version 336 00:18:41,920 --> 00:18:44,250 of the Paris Peace Talks, 337 00:18:44,250 --> 00:18:46,743 where everyone comes to the meeting, 338 00:18:48,687 --> 00:18:53,330 with all of their biases, put to the side and say, 339 00:18:56,095 --> 00:19:00,390 we're gonna just sit down and we're gonna solve this now. 340 00:19:00,390 --> 00:19:01,780 It's going to take the government 341 00:19:01,780 --> 00:19:04,350 and the tech industry cooperating together. 342 00:19:04,350 --> 00:19:09,350 It is going to take changes to section 230, you know, 343 00:19:10,840 --> 00:19:15,840 section 230 to me is the symbol. 344 00:19:16,100 --> 00:19:21,100 If we can get the tech companies and Washington DC 345 00:19:21,520 --> 00:19:26,170 to sit down and say, we're really gonna solve this, 346 00:19:26,170 --> 00:19:29,480 which means we're all gonna agree 347 00:19:29,480 --> 00:19:32,470 that section 230 is going to change, 348 00:19:32,470 --> 00:19:34,340 and we're gonna try and change it, 349 00:19:34,340 --> 00:19:39,340 so that we prevent misinformation. 350 00:19:39,770 --> 00:19:42,340 In the meantime, you know, 351 00:19:42,340 --> 00:19:44,220 lots of band-aids are happening 352 00:19:44,220 --> 00:19:46,343 while all the finger pointing is going on. 353 00:19:48,390 --> 00:19:53,390 I think vaccine misinformation is an area 354 00:19:53,630 --> 00:19:58,630 where the tech companies can kind of kind of say, 355 00:19:58,950 --> 00:20:01,840 okay, this is kind of a new-ish issue, 356 00:20:01,840 --> 00:20:04,866 let's use that for some best practices, 357 00:20:04,866 --> 00:20:08,430 and because lives are at stake, 358 00:20:08,430 --> 00:20:12,890 let's practice, so to speak, 359 00:20:12,890 --> 00:20:15,870 and solve the vaccine misinformation, 360 00:20:15,870 --> 00:20:19,040 let's use that as the Trojan horse 361 00:20:19,040 --> 00:20:22,573 to get to a bigger negotiation. 362 00:20:23,840 --> 00:20:25,940 - Yeah, very well said. 363 00:20:25,940 --> 00:20:27,980 And I think that's a great overview, 364 00:20:27,980 --> 00:20:29,710 and I think you're exactly right, 365 00:20:29,710 --> 00:20:32,560 and it's complicated because it's not, 366 00:20:32,560 --> 00:20:33,393 like you said, 367 00:20:33,393 --> 00:20:35,710 it requires both sides coming together, 368 00:20:35,710 --> 00:20:39,100 and being willing to have, you know, an open conversation 369 00:20:39,100 --> 00:20:40,840 that's non-confrontational, 370 00:20:40,840 --> 00:20:43,930 but I believe we'll get there, and I think, you know, 371 00:20:43,930 --> 00:20:46,080 as you said, it's ultimately the intentions 372 00:20:46,080 --> 00:20:48,870 are in the right place and that's where it starts. 373 00:20:48,870 --> 00:20:49,740 - Yeah. 374 00:20:49,740 --> 00:20:53,870 But if you look at the past Senate and House hearings 375 00:20:53,870 --> 00:20:58,870 where they've brought in the CEOs, all you see is emotion. 376 00:20:59,670 --> 00:21:03,350 We gotta get out of the emotion phase. 377 00:21:03,350 --> 00:21:05,120 I guess it's like this, 378 00:21:05,120 --> 00:21:08,228 the four stages of grieving or something. 379 00:21:08,228 --> 00:21:11,640 There must be four stages of getting 380 00:21:12,555 --> 00:21:16,280 one of the biggest problems facing humanity, 381 00:21:16,280 --> 00:21:18,600 getting our arms around that, 382 00:21:18,600 --> 00:21:23,350 and we're still in the emotion phase. 383 00:21:23,350 --> 00:21:27,850 I pray we get out of that really soon. 384 00:21:27,850 --> 00:21:32,443 It's something that I'm spending my private time on. 385 00:21:33,830 --> 00:21:38,530 I do spend a lot of my private time on talking to people 386 00:21:38,530 --> 00:21:40,450 in Washington, DC, 387 00:21:40,450 --> 00:21:43,620 and then talking to people in the tech industry, 388 00:21:43,620 --> 00:21:46,180 and trying to move us 389 00:21:46,180 --> 00:21:50,453 to the stage of constructive discussion, 390 00:21:51,460 --> 00:21:56,030 and if I can be a baby Henry Kissinger, 391 00:21:56,030 --> 00:22:01,030 you know, I'm willing and want to do that for this industry. 392 00:22:01,100 --> 00:22:03,052 We have too much at stake. 393 00:22:03,052 --> 00:22:05,530 Look at what the tech industry has accomplished 394 00:22:05,530 --> 00:22:08,570 for the world, the creation of jobs, 395 00:22:08,570 --> 00:22:10,423 the creation of solutions, 396 00:22:12,380 --> 00:22:17,380 you know, Airbnb, and Uber, and Instacart, 397 00:22:18,520 --> 00:22:20,840 they employ thousands of people, 398 00:22:20,840 --> 00:22:23,660 but then they allow people 399 00:22:23,660 --> 00:22:25,520 who want to be part-time workers 400 00:22:25,520 --> 00:22:27,580 who were just trying to make ends meet, 401 00:22:27,580 --> 00:22:30,890 they allow them to put food on the table. 402 00:22:30,890 --> 00:22:35,370 The amazing things the tech industry has done 403 00:22:35,370 --> 00:22:40,080 for the world are incalculable. 404 00:22:40,080 --> 00:22:44,580 But we we have warts. 405 00:22:44,580 --> 00:22:47,163 And the biggest one is misinformation. 406 00:22:48,000 --> 00:22:51,140 Hey, if we can invent all these solutions, 407 00:22:51,140 --> 00:22:54,963 we can eventually sit down and solve this issue. 408 00:22:56,320 --> 00:23:00,010 And I'm an optimist. 409 00:23:00,010 --> 00:23:01,700 I feel like we're getting close. 410 00:23:01,700 --> 00:23:02,650 I think we have to get through 411 00:23:02,650 --> 00:23:04,820 all this infrastructure stuff. 412 00:23:04,820 --> 00:23:07,800 We have to get voting rights passed. 413 00:23:07,800 --> 00:23:10,100 We have to get the freedom to vote act 414 00:23:13,860 --> 00:23:16,070 that used to be S1 and HR1, 415 00:23:16,070 --> 00:23:18,820 that is very important for our democracy. 416 00:23:18,820 --> 00:23:22,490 We need to get some basics done this year, 417 00:23:22,490 --> 00:23:25,027 and then I'm hoping everyone kind of says, 418 00:23:25,027 --> 00:23:27,480 "Oh, we can take a deep breath." 419 00:23:27,480 --> 00:23:32,480 Let's go back and really solve for misinformation. 420 00:23:32,600 --> 00:23:33,960 - Yeah. 421 00:23:33,960 --> 00:23:35,000 Well, that's a great segue. 422 00:23:35,000 --> 00:23:36,710 You speak very knowledgeably 423 00:23:36,710 --> 00:23:38,850 about all these issues in government, 424 00:23:38,850 --> 00:23:42,000 and that's because you've spent so much of your personal 425 00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:45,000 time over the past several years on activism. 426 00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:48,950 Why do you choose to use your platform and your time 427 00:23:48,950 --> 00:23:51,320 to try and make the world a better place? 428 00:23:51,320 --> 00:23:56,320 - I think we have a responsibility as individuals 429 00:23:57,570 --> 00:24:02,150 and as companies, this is why I evangelize 430 00:24:02,150 --> 00:24:06,500 for the Pledge 1% for every company to sign Pledge 1% 431 00:24:06,500 --> 00:24:08,493 where you give 1% of your equity, 432 00:24:08,493 --> 00:24:12,080 1% of your employees' volunteer time, 433 00:24:12,080 --> 00:24:15,530 that's the most valuable, and 1% of your product, 434 00:24:15,530 --> 00:24:20,160 if it's applicable, that tech leaders plant a stake 435 00:24:20,160 --> 00:24:22,330 in the ground that they stand 436 00:24:23,840 --> 00:24:26,170 for giving back in their community. 437 00:24:26,170 --> 00:24:29,713 So years ago, I got super active in San Francisco, 438 00:24:32,670 --> 00:24:37,063 in solving the tech lash that occurred in San Francisco. 439 00:24:38,260 --> 00:24:41,150 And when Donald Trump got elected, 440 00:24:41,150 --> 00:24:44,610 I thought that he was not great for our country. 441 00:24:44,610 --> 00:24:49,610 So I kinda moved my personal time to that issue. 442 00:24:49,950 --> 00:24:52,113 And that issue is now solved, 443 00:24:53,610 --> 00:24:57,310 but I think it's very important for founders 444 00:24:57,310 --> 00:24:59,193 to be civically engaged. 445 00:25:00,425 --> 00:25:04,480 I'm urging every founder to call their senators 446 00:25:04,480 --> 00:25:06,920 and congressmen and ask for the passage 447 00:25:06,920 --> 00:25:11,790 of the The Freedom to Vote Act. 448 00:25:11,790 --> 00:25:14,840 That's a really important piece of legislation. 449 00:25:14,840 --> 00:25:17,890 All the civil rights leaders across our country 450 00:25:17,890 --> 00:25:20,340 are urging for passage of this. 451 00:25:20,340 --> 00:25:22,840 We're at a historical moment 452 00:25:22,840 --> 00:25:25,930 where we need to guarantee future generations 453 00:25:25,930 --> 00:25:27,580 the right to vote. 454 00:25:27,580 --> 00:25:30,760 So there are fundamental pieces of legislation 455 00:25:30,760 --> 00:25:32,470 that are really important, 456 00:25:32,470 --> 00:25:35,610 that I do not think are political. 457 00:25:35,610 --> 00:25:38,983 These are bipartisan, humanitarian, 458 00:25:39,970 --> 00:25:44,970 and democracy preservation issues. 459 00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:48,850 The right to vote is a democracy preservation issue. 460 00:25:48,850 --> 00:25:53,843 Immigration reform is a humanitarian issue. 461 00:25:54,958 --> 00:25:58,890 The 700,000 DACA kids who were born here, 462 00:25:58,890 --> 00:26:03,890 they have a right to stay here and be employed here. 463 00:26:04,540 --> 00:26:06,230 And people like Laurene Powell Jobs, 464 00:26:06,230 --> 00:26:10,230 and the Emerson collective and forward.us, 465 00:26:10,230 --> 00:26:12,910 we're spending a lot of time right now, 466 00:26:12,910 --> 00:26:17,910 making sure that the DACA kids are protected in these bills 467 00:26:19,100 --> 00:26:21,536 that are being considered right now, 468 00:26:21,536 --> 00:26:26,536 we're at a crucial point where I think every tech founder 469 00:26:26,910 --> 00:26:31,910 has to get involved in DACA and voting rights. 470 00:26:31,910 --> 00:26:35,610 - Yeah, well, the work that you've been doing is amazing. 471 00:26:35,610 --> 00:26:39,390 It's much needed, and I think it's also really appreciated 472 00:26:39,390 --> 00:26:42,600 by the founders that you kind of urge us to be involved. 473 00:26:42,600 --> 00:26:45,610 It's hard sometimes as a founder 'cause you're, you know, 474 00:26:45,610 --> 00:26:48,700 in it with your own startup and kind of heads down, 475 00:26:48,700 --> 00:26:52,270 but I always appreciate when you kind of nudge me, 476 00:26:52,270 --> 00:26:55,770 'cause it reminds me how important it is to take time, 477 00:26:55,770 --> 00:26:56,930 to be civically engaged. 478 00:26:56,930 --> 00:26:59,540 Because so much of our success is 479 00:26:59,540 --> 00:27:02,100 because of this great democracy that we've lived in. 480 00:27:02,100 --> 00:27:04,620 And as an immigrant, for me, especially, you know, 481 00:27:04,620 --> 00:27:07,390 it's been life-changing to be able to grow up 482 00:27:07,390 --> 00:27:09,360 in this country and run a business in this country, 483 00:27:09,360 --> 00:27:11,340 and it's like you said, 484 00:27:11,340 --> 00:27:14,800 we're fighting for the preservation of our democracy, 485 00:27:14,800 --> 00:27:17,250 and it's important for all of us to be involved in that. 486 00:27:17,250 --> 00:27:20,510 - Starting a company is the hardest thing on Earth, 487 00:27:20,510 --> 00:27:25,290 but if a founder can take a sliver of their time, 488 00:27:26,570 --> 00:27:29,500 their leverage in Washington, DC, 489 00:27:29,500 --> 00:27:33,080 because the legislators are fascinated with founders. 490 00:27:33,080 --> 00:27:36,993 So when a founder speaks out, the legislators listen, 491 00:27:37,990 --> 00:27:42,990 so founders have a very loud megaphone in Washington, DC, 492 00:27:43,530 --> 00:27:44,910 and I know how busy they are, 493 00:27:44,910 --> 00:27:46,560 but if they spend just a little time 494 00:27:46,560 --> 00:27:50,230 using their megaphone on the outside, 495 00:27:50,230 --> 00:27:55,230 they could have a huge return on their time 496 00:27:55,340 --> 00:27:56,803 for civic engagement. 497 00:27:59,030 --> 00:28:04,030 Another aspect that I think is really important 498 00:28:04,902 --> 00:28:07,083 is racial equity. 499 00:28:08,070 --> 00:28:11,770 And after George Floyd, 500 00:28:11,770 --> 00:28:16,420 I think everyone in this country had an awakening, 501 00:28:16,420 --> 00:28:21,420 but waking yourself up is fine, but we have to do something. 502 00:28:22,930 --> 00:28:27,930 And what I'm doing and hoping others do the same thing is 503 00:28:28,330 --> 00:28:32,480 I've invested in a company called Slawson and Co., 504 00:28:32,480 --> 00:28:37,230 it's a venture capital fund led by two amazing 505 00:28:37,230 --> 00:28:39,410 general partners of color. 506 00:28:39,410 --> 00:28:44,410 And they are gonna go out and invest in founders of color. 507 00:28:44,560 --> 00:28:49,560 And what we need is a Larry Page of color 508 00:28:49,660 --> 00:28:53,470 or Mark Zuckerberg of color, a Jack Dorsey of color, 509 00:28:53,470 --> 00:28:58,140 that can't happen unless we have venture capital funds 510 00:28:58,140 --> 00:29:00,770 that invest in founders of color 511 00:29:00,770 --> 00:29:05,730 that create the next Jack Dorsey of color 512 00:29:05,730 --> 00:29:08,350 and Slawson and Co. is doing that, 513 00:29:08,350 --> 00:29:12,430 there's many other general partner of color 514 00:29:12,430 --> 00:29:14,260 venture funds out there. 515 00:29:14,260 --> 00:29:17,180 This is gonna take 10 years to happen, 516 00:29:17,180 --> 00:29:20,140 but we have to start now. 517 00:29:20,140 --> 00:29:25,140 And the more venture capital funds led by founders of color, 518 00:29:26,850 --> 00:29:29,060 led by general partners of color, 519 00:29:29,060 --> 00:29:31,410 investing in founders of color, 520 00:29:31,410 --> 00:29:36,350 that is the systemic solution to racial equity, 521 00:29:36,350 --> 00:29:40,350 and that is something else that I am evangelizing, 522 00:29:40,350 --> 00:29:44,720 I mentor the Slawson and Co. general partners 523 00:29:44,720 --> 00:29:46,920 for hours a week, 524 00:29:46,920 --> 00:29:49,460 we are gonna find, you know, 525 00:29:49,460 --> 00:29:53,850 the Larry Page and the Jack Dorsey of color, 526 00:29:53,850 --> 00:29:56,680 we're gonna build a trillion dollar company. 527 00:29:56,680 --> 00:30:00,860 And off we go, we have changed the ecosystem. 528 00:30:00,860 --> 00:30:03,680 - That's so important, it's very well said. 529 00:30:03,680 --> 00:30:05,730 Thank you for closing with that. 530 00:30:05,730 --> 00:30:07,150 Thank you for all your wisdom 531 00:30:07,150 --> 00:30:10,110 and your service to the country, 532 00:30:10,110 --> 00:30:12,230 to Silicon Valley and to founders. 533 00:30:12,230 --> 00:30:14,780 It's such an honor to be a part of your network and to speak 534 00:30:14,780 --> 00:30:17,630 with you today, thank you so much for your time. 535 00:30:17,630 --> 00:30:18,560 - It's a pleasure, 536 00:30:18,560 --> 00:30:22,660 and we're honored to be investors in Hooked, 537 00:30:22,660 --> 00:30:25,624 which is another one of the great, great companies. 538 00:30:25,624 --> 00:30:28,207 (upbeat music)