1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:07,132 (chill electronic music) 2 00:00:10,719 --> 00:00:13,221 - Welcome to "Lenovo Late Night I.T.", 3 00:00:13,221 --> 00:00:15,932 the number one tech show filmed inside a garage. 4 00:00:15,932 --> 00:00:17,934 I'm Baratunde Thurston. 5 00:00:17,934 --> 00:00:20,770 For years IT companies have been led to believe 6 00:00:20,770 --> 00:00:23,023 that they have to choose between going green 7 00:00:23,023 --> 00:00:26,192 and making green, but what if this is a false choice? 8 00:00:26,192 --> 00:00:29,112 What if sustainability isn't just good for the planet, 9 00:00:29,112 --> 00:00:31,156 but also good for business? 10 00:00:31,156 --> 00:00:32,615 Here to tackle that question 11 00:00:32,615 --> 00:00:35,160 is industry consultant Pamela Rucker. 12 00:00:35,160 --> 00:00:37,704 Pamela runs an advisory services practice 13 00:00:37,704 --> 00:00:40,206 that helps companies frame their digital challenges, 14 00:00:40,206 --> 00:00:43,626 reassess their offerings and reinvent their business models. 15 00:00:43,626 --> 00:00:47,505 She's advised numerous Fortune 500 firms and coach leaders 16 00:00:47,505 --> 00:00:49,758 at some of the world's most recognizable brands, 17 00:00:49,758 --> 00:00:53,636 including Microsoft, NBC, Kaiser, the Federal Reserve, 18 00:00:53,636 --> 00:00:56,848 get money, get money, Cisco and Chevron. 19 00:00:56,848 --> 00:00:59,017 She also teaches at Harvard University 20 00:00:59,017 --> 00:01:00,310 and is the expert in residence 21 00:01:00,310 --> 00:01:02,437 for their women in leadership program. 22 00:01:02,437 --> 00:01:04,856 Also with us tonight is Rob Enderle, 23 00:01:04,856 --> 00:01:07,442 President and Principal Analyst of the Enderle Group, 24 00:01:07,442 --> 00:01:09,944 an emerging technology advisory firm. 25 00:01:09,944 --> 00:01:11,905 Before he founded the Enderle Group. 26 00:01:11,905 --> 00:01:14,657 Rob was the senior research fellow for Forrester Research 27 00:01:14,657 --> 00:01:16,242 and the Giga Information Group. 28 00:01:16,242 --> 00:01:18,119 Where he worked with companies like Microsoft, 29 00:01:18,119 --> 00:01:20,747 IBM, HP, Intel, and Sony. 30 00:01:20,747 --> 00:01:22,791 Rob, Pamela, welcome to the garage, 31 00:01:22,791 --> 00:01:23,833 thanks for being with me. 32 00:01:23,833 --> 00:01:24,918 - Thank you for having me. 33 00:01:24,918 --> 00:01:26,920 - Good to have you, good to have you, Rob. 34 00:01:26,920 --> 00:01:28,213 I wanna start with you Rob 35 00:01:28,213 --> 00:01:31,216 and ask what the heck is Green IT? 36 00:01:31,216 --> 00:01:32,926 We have a lot of hype 37 00:01:32,926 --> 00:01:35,261 around all kinds of sustainability efforts 38 00:01:35,261 --> 00:01:36,846 across many industries. 39 00:01:36,846 --> 00:01:39,599 So can you offer some examples of what it actually means 40 00:01:39,599 --> 00:01:41,726 in the IT industry to go green? 41 00:01:41,726 --> 00:01:43,436 - Sure, I mean what it means 42 00:01:43,436 --> 00:01:46,856 is you're using some type of sustainable energy generation 43 00:01:46,856 --> 00:01:49,776 to power IT and then the equipment they're using 44 00:01:49,776 --> 00:01:53,321 is fully recycled and recyclable, at least increasingly so. 45 00:01:53,321 --> 00:01:55,824 Part of the effort is to protect the environment 46 00:01:55,824 --> 00:01:58,159 and drive it for a sustainable future. 47 00:01:58,159 --> 00:01:59,953 - Pamela, if you have anything to add to that, 48 00:01:59,953 --> 00:02:01,955 as far as examples, I'm curious. 49 00:02:01,955 --> 00:02:04,582 I'm also curious what the motivation is 50 00:02:04,582 --> 00:02:07,335 outside of environmental goodness. 51 00:02:07,335 --> 00:02:09,879 - Well, that's the problem we have with most CIOs, right? 52 00:02:09,879 --> 00:02:13,383 That they aren't motivated to necessarily do Green IT, 53 00:02:13,383 --> 00:02:16,094 the challenge is when people try to do Green IT, 54 00:02:16,094 --> 00:02:18,221 they usually do it for one of a few reasons. 55 00:02:18,221 --> 00:02:20,140 Either they were pressured into it 56 00:02:20,140 --> 00:02:22,350 and that might be that they have a partner 57 00:02:22,350 --> 00:02:23,935 or a supplier or a customer, 58 00:02:23,935 --> 00:02:26,563 or even regulation that says they have to change. 59 00:02:26,563 --> 00:02:29,149 Or it could be that that's a real ethos for them, 60 00:02:29,149 --> 00:02:31,276 that they really believe in saving the planet. 61 00:02:31,276 --> 00:02:33,319 The challenge is most CIOs 62 00:02:33,319 --> 00:02:35,363 aren't necessarily motivated to do that. 63 00:02:35,363 --> 00:02:38,658 They are motivated to fulfill the wish of their CEO, 64 00:02:38,658 --> 00:02:39,868 which is speed and agility. 65 00:02:39,868 --> 00:02:42,162 I have to move fast, I have to respond fast, 66 00:02:42,162 --> 00:02:43,788 I have to be flexible to the marketplace. 67 00:02:43,788 --> 00:02:46,124 And oftentimes they don't think, 68 00:02:46,124 --> 00:02:47,208 as you said in your introduction 69 00:02:47,208 --> 00:02:49,169 that those two things might go hand in hand. 70 00:02:49,169 --> 00:02:50,920 - And what do you think? 71 00:02:50,920 --> 00:02:53,381 - I think that they do, I think they go hand in hand. 72 00:02:53,381 --> 00:02:54,424 I think you have to think about 73 00:02:54,424 --> 00:02:56,509 the products and services that you are creating 74 00:02:56,509 --> 00:02:57,510 and how you might be able 75 00:02:57,510 --> 00:03:01,431 to use the sustainable technologies to your advantage. 76 00:03:01,431 --> 00:03:02,807 And oftentimes people think of it 77 00:03:02,807 --> 00:03:04,601 as a more of a political topic 78 00:03:04,601 --> 00:03:06,060 than they do a competitive topic. 79 00:03:06,060 --> 00:03:06,978 - What do you think Rob, 80 00:03:06,978 --> 00:03:09,814 about the politics of Green IT 81 00:03:09,814 --> 00:03:12,317 versus the business motivation of Green IT, 82 00:03:12,317 --> 00:03:14,319 where do you stand on that? 83 00:03:14,319 --> 00:03:15,570 - Well, they're kind of flowing together 84 00:03:15,570 --> 00:03:18,198 from my perspective, most of the large OEMs 85 00:03:18,198 --> 00:03:20,909 are reporting an excess of a billion dollars of revenue 86 00:03:20,909 --> 00:03:23,328 connected to their green efforts now. 87 00:03:23,328 --> 00:03:28,291 Companies are choosing OEMs to build their hardware 88 00:03:28,333 --> 00:03:30,710 that are demonstrably green, 89 00:03:30,710 --> 00:03:33,755 that are doing things to approach the circular economy. 90 00:03:33,755 --> 00:03:36,841 The customers, particularly millennials 91 00:03:36,841 --> 00:03:39,969 are looking for companies that are actually making progress 92 00:03:39,969 --> 00:03:41,137 and making a difference. 93 00:03:41,137 --> 00:03:43,723 So it's one of the reasons why we've got a big upswing 94 00:03:43,723 --> 00:03:46,935 in the use of ocean born plastics, for instance. 95 00:03:46,935 --> 00:03:49,103 Is that's one way to keep those plastics, 96 00:03:49,103 --> 00:03:51,773 at least for a cycle out of the oceans. 97 00:03:51,773 --> 00:03:53,858 And then hopefully at some future point, 98 00:03:53,858 --> 00:03:56,694 keep them in current rotation all the time. 99 00:03:56,694 --> 00:03:58,238 So they never make it into a landfill, 100 00:03:58,238 --> 00:03:59,572 they never make it into the ocean. 101 00:03:59,572 --> 00:04:01,074 - So Pamela, when I hear that, 102 00:04:01,074 --> 00:04:03,284 that sounds like better business. 103 00:04:03,284 --> 00:04:05,954 Not wasting things, recycling materials 104 00:04:05,954 --> 00:04:07,247 this kind of closed loop, 105 00:04:07,247 --> 00:04:10,041 but we live in a culture of disposability. 106 00:04:10,041 --> 00:04:11,042 What are you observing 107 00:04:11,042 --> 00:04:12,835 in terms of how business leaders are seeing 108 00:04:12,835 --> 00:04:15,964 the possibility of a circular economy when it comes to tech? 109 00:04:15,964 --> 00:04:19,342 - So I think it sounds great, right? And I think a lot of us 110 00:04:19,342 --> 00:04:22,053 are enamored with the idea of doing that. 111 00:04:22,053 --> 00:04:24,347 But one of the things I find when I work with organizations 112 00:04:24,347 --> 00:04:26,766 is that they might have a bit of a misalignment 113 00:04:26,766 --> 00:04:28,768 in their organizational identities. 114 00:04:28,768 --> 00:04:31,521 So they like to say that they want to do these things, 115 00:04:31,521 --> 00:04:33,147 but if you work in the organization 116 00:04:33,147 --> 00:04:35,525 and pull back the cover or open the kimono, 117 00:04:35,525 --> 00:04:38,528 you recognize that the way that they work in actuality 118 00:04:38,528 --> 00:04:40,280 is not in a way that lets them do that. 119 00:04:40,280 --> 00:04:42,156 And it might be because it's difficult for them 120 00:04:42,156 --> 00:04:45,368 to find ways to do projects that will allow them 121 00:04:45,368 --> 00:04:47,203 to meet the goals that we're talking about. 122 00:04:47,203 --> 00:04:49,414 And it may also just be because people feel like 123 00:04:49,414 --> 00:04:51,708 I have to move fast, I have to get things done. 124 00:04:51,708 --> 00:04:53,376 A lot of times the space that I live in 125 00:04:53,376 --> 00:04:54,502 is working with organizations 126 00:04:54,502 --> 00:04:56,296 to help them uncover some of the things 127 00:04:56,296 --> 00:04:57,880 that are limiting the way that they work, 128 00:04:57,880 --> 00:04:59,882 so that they can get to more sustainable practice. 129 00:04:59,882 --> 00:05:02,552 - Rob, are you seeing debates like these play out? 130 00:05:02,552 --> 00:05:04,971 And if so, when are they being resolved 131 00:05:04,971 --> 00:05:07,015 in favor of doing more Green IT? 132 00:05:07,724 --> 00:05:11,644 - When you've been doing something the same way for decades 133 00:05:11,644 --> 00:05:15,064 and all your incentives, your motivations, 134 00:05:15,064 --> 00:05:19,569 your promotions efforts are all tied to consumption, 135 00:05:19,569 --> 00:05:22,989 making a pivot to circular economy is pretty difficult. 136 00:05:22,989 --> 00:05:24,991 'Cause everything you built up before 137 00:05:24,991 --> 00:05:27,535 is based around this idea of consuming products 138 00:05:27,535 --> 00:05:29,912 and then discarding them, that's gotta be changed. 139 00:05:29,912 --> 00:05:30,997 And the only way you can do that 140 00:05:30,997 --> 00:05:33,458 is first, believe from the top and then driving 141 00:05:33,458 --> 00:05:37,003 that belief hard into your community of employees 142 00:05:37,003 --> 00:05:38,129 so that they believe as well. 143 00:05:38,129 --> 00:05:39,672 And they're looking for ways, 144 00:05:39,672 --> 00:05:43,176 creative ways often to create a sustainable difference. 145 00:05:43,176 --> 00:05:44,761 - Yeah, I wanna add to that because I think that 146 00:05:44,761 --> 00:05:48,348 it's easier for people to believe that larger organizations 147 00:05:48,348 --> 00:05:50,183 can do this because they have the profit. 148 00:05:50,183 --> 00:05:51,684 Then they have the pressure 149 00:05:51,684 --> 00:05:54,020 and they have the presence in the industry 150 00:05:54,020 --> 00:05:55,480 that says, I need to do something about it. 151 00:05:55,480 --> 00:05:57,065 But when you think about how this gets back down 152 00:05:57,065 --> 00:05:58,775 to main street into the everyday person, 153 00:05:58,775 --> 00:06:00,777 or even to midsize organizations, 154 00:06:00,777 --> 00:06:02,028 one of the things they will say is, 155 00:06:02,028 --> 00:06:04,197 I don't have the resources for that, I can't do it. 156 00:06:04,197 --> 00:06:07,116 I can't work on that, or it's not a priority. 157 00:06:07,116 --> 00:06:09,869 And so I often find that one way to get them 158 00:06:09,869 --> 00:06:13,414 to get engaged in that is to put them in an ecosystem 159 00:06:13,414 --> 00:06:15,166 where they're working with a larger organization 160 00:06:15,166 --> 00:06:17,168 that says, this is the way that we work. 161 00:06:17,168 --> 00:06:18,002 - Okay. 162 00:06:18,002 --> 00:06:19,128 - This is what our partners have to do. 163 00:06:19,128 --> 00:06:21,130 And that's the reason that I said one main reason, 164 00:06:21,130 --> 00:06:22,465 I see them doing it as pressure. 165 00:06:22,465 --> 00:06:25,426 Because if they can no longer operate the same way, 166 00:06:25,426 --> 00:06:26,469 then they may change. 167 00:06:26,469 --> 00:06:30,264 - So I wanna get a little closer to tactics on the ground. 168 00:06:30,264 --> 00:06:31,724 There's a wide spectrum of things 169 00:06:31,724 --> 00:06:33,559 a company could do to be more green. 170 00:06:33,559 --> 00:06:34,394 What do you see 171 00:06:34,394 --> 00:06:38,523 as some of the easier possibilities Rob for going green 172 00:06:38,523 --> 00:06:40,566 versus things that might take a much longer time, 173 00:06:40,566 --> 00:06:42,819 or be more challenging to pull off? 174 00:06:42,819 --> 00:06:46,406 - Well, certainly the easy path to doing simple things 175 00:06:46,406 --> 00:06:48,783 that are green is first doing assessment 176 00:06:48,783 --> 00:06:52,328 of what it is you are doing with regard to disposal. 177 00:06:52,328 --> 00:06:53,496 You need a baseline, 178 00:06:53,496 --> 00:06:56,457 you need to know just how green you are to start, 179 00:06:56,457 --> 00:06:59,168 and then create a hierarchy of those things 180 00:06:59,168 --> 00:07:01,170 that are relatively easy to fix. 181 00:07:01,170 --> 00:07:03,673 Do you really need to consume that much paper? 182 00:07:03,673 --> 00:07:05,216 How about your electricity? 183 00:07:05,216 --> 00:07:06,759 How are you sourcing it? 184 00:07:06,759 --> 00:07:09,262 Could you switch to a greener supply? 185 00:07:09,262 --> 00:07:10,721 Then looking at your suppliers, 186 00:07:10,721 --> 00:07:13,391 which of your suppliers are greener than the other? 187 00:07:13,391 --> 00:07:16,185 Which ones are on board and which ones are not? 188 00:07:16,185 --> 00:07:18,479 And then may start making your purchase decisions, 189 00:07:18,479 --> 00:07:21,732 at least partially on that, those green efforts. 190 00:07:21,732 --> 00:07:23,734 Not always on the lowest bidder, 191 00:07:23,734 --> 00:07:26,487 but partially on those people that are both 192 00:07:26,487 --> 00:07:28,489 treating the raw materials properly 193 00:07:28,489 --> 00:07:30,491 and treating their employees properly. 194 00:07:30,491 --> 00:07:32,660 As we've known with regard to sustainability, 195 00:07:32,660 --> 00:07:36,456 we do kind of broaden that with regard to diversity as well, 196 00:07:36,456 --> 00:07:38,666 just to make sure that your suppliers are doing 197 00:07:38,666 --> 00:07:41,627 what you want them to do to create the kind of environment 198 00:07:41,627 --> 00:07:43,880 you'd like to have and see in the world. 199 00:07:43,880 --> 00:07:46,507 - Are there ways to measure some of this stuff? 200 00:07:46,507 --> 00:07:48,801 I mean, I'm imagining someone has the decision to make 201 00:07:48,801 --> 00:07:50,136 price is easy to look at. 202 00:07:51,262 --> 00:07:54,599 Terms of a service agreement are relatively easy to look at, 203 00:07:54,599 --> 00:07:56,100 depending on how long that is, 204 00:07:56,100 --> 00:07:59,020 but greenness level could be pretty fuzzy. 205 00:07:59,020 --> 00:07:59,896 What have you found 206 00:07:59,896 --> 00:08:02,064 in terms of how people are able to make such an assessment? 207 00:08:02,064 --> 00:08:03,441 - I mean, there are a number of ways to look at it 208 00:08:03,441 --> 00:08:05,651 outside of just your carbon footprint itself. 209 00:08:05,651 --> 00:08:07,445 You could look at your ‘as is’ state 210 00:08:07,445 --> 00:08:10,656 and look at what you're consuming right now. 211 00:08:10,656 --> 00:08:11,574 And then look at your to be 212 00:08:11,574 --> 00:08:14,202 and see where you might actually want to go in the future. 213 00:08:14,202 --> 00:08:17,038 And I also think you could look at to his point, 214 00:08:17,038 --> 00:08:18,873 what you're doing with paper. 215 00:08:18,873 --> 00:08:21,417 I cannot tell you the number of people that I work with, 216 00:08:21,417 --> 00:08:25,046 who are trying to implement AI machine learning, big data, 217 00:08:25,046 --> 00:08:27,423 and they still operate largely off of paper. 218 00:08:27,423 --> 00:08:28,341 Or they've not gone through 219 00:08:28,341 --> 00:08:30,718 a workforce modern modernization at all. 220 00:08:30,718 --> 00:08:34,680 And so they're using old clunky machines to work on 221 00:08:34,680 --> 00:08:36,849 or old servers and there are a lot of places 222 00:08:36,849 --> 00:08:38,518 that they could actually give their organization 223 00:08:38,518 --> 00:08:40,728 a green facelift and benefit from that. 224 00:08:40,728 --> 00:08:45,525 - A green facelift it sounds like a spa day, I like that. 225 00:08:45,525 --> 00:08:46,901 - But it works in your favor, right? 226 00:08:46,901 --> 00:08:49,779 In the same way that, that facelift makes you look better, 227 00:08:49,779 --> 00:08:51,322 green is good for the company. 228 00:08:51,322 --> 00:08:53,574 Green is good for you because it can give you growth. 229 00:08:53,574 --> 00:08:54,408 The green is good for you 230 00:08:54,408 --> 00:08:55,826 because it can make you more competitive. 231 00:08:55,826 --> 00:08:58,788 - Let's about why it's better for the business. 232 00:08:58,788 --> 00:09:00,373 What are the things you've seen 233 00:09:00,373 --> 00:09:01,874 in terms of business performance, 234 00:09:01,874 --> 00:09:05,336 customer retention, some other more tangible method 235 00:09:05,336 --> 00:09:07,255 that a CEO and a board would respond to 236 00:09:07,255 --> 00:09:08,923 or shareholder would respond to, 237 00:09:08,923 --> 00:09:10,841 that says that green investment is paying off? 238 00:09:10,841 --> 00:09:13,636 - If you think who we are selling to today, 239 00:09:13,636 --> 00:09:16,347 we are not selling to our parents any longer. 240 00:09:16,347 --> 00:09:19,350 We are selling to a much more aware culture, 241 00:09:19,350 --> 00:09:22,311 who is going to ask how are you operating? 242 00:09:22,311 --> 00:09:25,064 And are you using sustainable practices? 243 00:09:25,064 --> 00:09:26,107 - Or are you destroying my home planet. 244 00:09:26,107 --> 00:09:27,483 - They're going to hold you accountable. 245 00:09:27,483 --> 00:09:30,945 And so there are people who either won't buy from you, 246 00:09:30,945 --> 00:09:33,239 but there are also people who will consider you 247 00:09:33,239 --> 00:09:34,824 just because you say you build 248 00:09:34,824 --> 00:09:36,450 and make things in a sustainable way. 249 00:09:36,450 --> 00:09:38,077 - Leadership is something you've brought up 250 00:09:38,077 --> 00:09:39,328 a number of times, Rob. 251 00:09:39,328 --> 00:09:41,789 And so I wanna look inside that org chart 252 00:09:41,789 --> 00:09:45,376 and think about the leadership in the CIO room, 253 00:09:45,376 --> 00:09:46,877 in the CTO room. 254 00:09:46,877 --> 00:09:49,547 Are you seeing CIOs and CTOs 255 00:09:49,547 --> 00:09:52,216 drive some of this move toward Green IT? 256 00:09:52,216 --> 00:09:55,261 - The driving effort often comes from customers 257 00:09:55,261 --> 00:09:57,722 that are demanding it and most often, 258 00:09:57,722 --> 00:09:59,348 at least where I've seen the greatest success 259 00:09:59,348 --> 00:10:02,184 from the very top from the board and the CEO, 260 00:10:02,184 --> 00:10:04,687 who are demanding the companies be more green. 261 00:10:04,687 --> 00:10:08,274 Even investors are starting to look for green companies 262 00:10:08,274 --> 00:10:09,692 and preferring them over companies 263 00:10:09,692 --> 00:10:11,736 that are seen as polluting. 264 00:10:11,736 --> 00:10:14,280 When that differentiation is made, 265 00:10:14,280 --> 00:10:16,115 they're made aware of that differentiation. 266 00:10:16,115 --> 00:10:19,118 And it does imply the company is more forward-looking 267 00:10:19,118 --> 00:10:21,621 and investors invest in the future. 268 00:10:21,621 --> 00:10:23,247 And I guess right now I'm arguing 269 00:10:23,247 --> 00:10:24,665 that they're investing in their future 270 00:10:24,665 --> 00:10:26,751 as much as everybody else's at the moment. 271 00:10:26,751 --> 00:10:30,379 So but it comes from the, it's got to come from the top. 272 00:10:30,379 --> 00:10:33,299 In smaller companies you can get a grassroots effort, 273 00:10:33,299 --> 00:10:34,425 but the grassroots efforts, 274 00:10:34,425 --> 00:10:36,052 I've seen started in larger companies 275 00:10:36,052 --> 00:10:39,597 often don't survive executive oversight, 276 00:10:39,597 --> 00:10:41,515 if they don't get that backing at the higher levels. 277 00:10:41,515 --> 00:10:45,311 Each one of the large computer OEMs is claimed 278 00:10:45,311 --> 00:10:49,023 in excess of a billion dollars of extra revenue. 279 00:10:49,023 --> 00:10:51,192 That's resulting from their green efforts, 280 00:10:51,192 --> 00:10:54,654 typically between one and $2 billion is where it resides 281 00:10:54,654 --> 00:10:57,073 with projections that it's gonna be far higher 282 00:10:57,073 --> 00:10:57,948 as we go forward. 283 00:10:57,948 --> 00:11:01,535 Because as we get younger buyers coming into the IT space, 284 00:11:01,535 --> 00:11:02,620 they are demanding this. 285 00:11:02,620 --> 00:11:04,872 And the large companies that are doing this 286 00:11:04,872 --> 00:11:07,375 are now not only working on their own green efforts, 287 00:11:07,375 --> 00:11:11,212 but they're requiring their suppliers to be equally green, 288 00:11:11,212 --> 00:11:12,463 to be equally sustainable. 289 00:11:12,463 --> 00:11:14,799 And I should again point out, 290 00:11:14,799 --> 00:11:16,425 it's not just sustainability here. 291 00:11:16,425 --> 00:11:18,302 It's diversity and inclusion 292 00:11:18,302 --> 00:11:21,180 that are all being worked into this mass. 293 00:11:21,180 --> 00:11:23,140 They're trying to solve all three problems at once 294 00:11:23,140 --> 00:11:25,226 and proving that you can do more than one thing. 295 00:11:25,226 --> 00:11:26,060 - Go ahead 296 00:11:26,060 --> 00:11:26,936 - Well I was gonna say, that's really important 297 00:11:26,936 --> 00:11:28,437 because when you think about the triple bottom line 298 00:11:28,437 --> 00:11:30,064 it's people profit planet, right? 299 00:11:30,064 --> 00:11:33,651 And so I think we often think about the profit a lot 300 00:11:33,651 --> 00:11:35,861 and we push Green IT and think about the planet. 301 00:11:35,861 --> 00:11:36,779 But we have to think about 302 00:11:36,779 --> 00:11:38,656 how people can work in more sustainable ways. 303 00:11:38,656 --> 00:11:41,200 - Well Rob what you said about that 304 00:11:41,200 --> 00:11:43,953 sort of use and discard-based economy. 305 00:11:43,953 --> 00:11:45,538 That's been true of raw materials, 306 00:11:45,538 --> 00:11:46,747 it's also been true with people, right? 307 00:11:46,747 --> 00:11:47,581 - Absolutely. 308 00:11:47,581 --> 00:11:50,251 - We've burned people out and we haven't retained them 309 00:11:50,251 --> 00:11:51,877 because we've used and abused them. 310 00:11:51,877 --> 00:11:54,547 So how do you have a more sustainable attitude 311 00:11:54,547 --> 00:11:56,507 toward your workforce and your employees, 312 00:11:56,507 --> 00:11:59,760 not just your suppliers and your raw material? 313 00:11:59,760 --> 00:12:02,346 Well, I want to expand this conversation to people 314 00:12:02,346 --> 00:12:03,723 in an emotionally connected way. 315 00:12:03,723 --> 00:12:06,058 We're gonna take a break from our conversational flow 316 00:12:06,058 --> 00:12:07,768 and play a weird game together. 317 00:12:07,768 --> 00:12:09,019 - Okay. 318 00:12:09,019 --> 00:12:11,647 - Tech insiders often forget that most people 319 00:12:11,647 --> 00:12:14,316 have no idea what on earth they do. 320 00:12:14,316 --> 00:12:16,736 So we created a segment that challenges our guests 321 00:12:16,736 --> 00:12:20,239 to explain their jobs in plain English, here's how it works. 322 00:12:20,239 --> 00:12:23,409 You're gonna take turns explaining your jobs to each other 323 00:12:23,409 --> 00:12:25,202 as if you were on a first date. 324 00:12:25,202 --> 00:12:28,372 Now depending on how well you do, maybe you'll get a second. 325 00:12:28,372 --> 00:12:31,041 It's time again for Date Night I.T. 326 00:12:31,041 --> 00:12:33,627 (upbeat music) 327 00:12:35,588 --> 00:12:37,131 All right, y'all you heard the rules. 328 00:12:37,131 --> 00:12:40,009 It's pretty simple, I'm gonna have you go first Pamela. 329 00:12:40,009 --> 00:12:41,927 You explain your job to Rob 330 00:12:41,927 --> 00:12:43,888 as if you're on this awkward first date. 331 00:12:43,888 --> 00:12:45,765 And then Rob, you'll have a chance 332 00:12:45,765 --> 00:12:47,224 to kind of reflect on what you heard. 333 00:12:47,224 --> 00:12:49,226 I might have some comments and notes myself, 334 00:12:49,226 --> 00:12:50,853 and then we'll do it in reverse. 335 00:12:50,853 --> 00:12:54,190 - So Rob, if I did not like you, 336 00:12:54,190 --> 00:12:57,359 I would describe myself as a real life pinky and the brain, 337 00:12:57,359 --> 00:12:58,778 that's trying to use technology 338 00:12:58,778 --> 00:13:00,738 to take over the world every day 339 00:13:00,738 --> 00:13:03,657 and put you in an awful "Black Mirror" episode, 340 00:13:03,657 --> 00:13:05,618 that's how I would describe myself. 341 00:13:05,618 --> 00:13:07,745 If I did like you, I would talk to you about 342 00:13:07,745 --> 00:13:10,748 how I use technology to save the planet, 343 00:13:10,748 --> 00:13:13,751 to help it create better products and services. 344 00:13:13,751 --> 00:13:16,128 And I help explain difficult concepts to people 345 00:13:16,128 --> 00:13:17,254 who might want to use technology 346 00:13:17,254 --> 00:13:19,089 to make the world a better place to live in. 347 00:13:19,089 --> 00:13:20,800 - Rob how did you receive that pitch? 348 00:13:20,800 --> 00:13:21,926 What are some notes? 349 00:13:21,926 --> 00:13:23,886 What are your thoughts here? 350 00:13:23,886 --> 00:13:24,720 - Well, now I'm trying to think 351 00:13:24,720 --> 00:13:26,305 of whether she likes me or not. 352 00:13:27,556 --> 00:13:31,310 I got both so clearly undecided at this particular point. 353 00:13:32,311 --> 00:13:35,731 Certainly the "Black Mirror" thing is kind of concerning 354 00:13:35,731 --> 00:13:38,359 it motivates me to be a great date 355 00:13:38,359 --> 00:13:40,110 because I don't want the bad outcome. 356 00:13:40,110 --> 00:13:40,945 - [Pamela] Right. 357 00:13:42,154 --> 00:13:45,533 - And Pamela, like, are you using your management systems, 358 00:13:45,533 --> 00:13:46,700 behavioral approach. 359 00:13:46,700 --> 00:13:48,077 - Right, I'm sending messages. 360 00:13:48,077 --> 00:13:50,204 - It's trying to incentivize a certain behavior 361 00:13:50,204 --> 00:13:53,165 that won't lead to Rob's destruction, good job. 362 00:13:53,165 --> 00:13:56,752 Rob it's turn why don't you tell Pamela what it is you do? 363 00:13:57,670 --> 00:13:58,838 - I'm still kind of recovering 364 00:13:58,838 --> 00:14:00,756 from the whole "Black Mirror" thing, but yes. 365 00:14:00,756 --> 00:14:02,299 - Take a minute if you need it. 366 00:14:03,843 --> 00:14:04,969 - I might take a couple. 367 00:14:04,969 --> 00:14:08,597 Mostly what I do is I take complex concepts 368 00:14:08,597 --> 00:14:10,057 and translate them into things 369 00:14:10,057 --> 00:14:13,060 that people could easily understand, that's what I do today. 370 00:14:13,060 --> 00:14:17,898 My background is really working between technology and users 371 00:14:17,898 --> 00:14:20,359 and letting users know what it is they can do 372 00:14:20,359 --> 00:14:22,695 with the technology they're getting and making sure 373 00:14:22,695 --> 00:14:24,655 they understand the risks that they're taking. 374 00:14:24,655 --> 00:14:26,866 So much of what I try to do is help people 375 00:14:26,866 --> 00:14:28,826 get to the solution that they want, 376 00:14:28,826 --> 00:14:32,246 not necessarily the solution that person's telling them. 377 00:14:32,246 --> 00:14:33,289 - What did you think of that Pamela? 378 00:14:33,289 --> 00:14:35,249 - So I see eye to eye 379 00:14:35,249 --> 00:14:37,710 with the idea of taking complex solutions 380 00:14:37,710 --> 00:14:39,086 and helping people understand them, 381 00:14:39,086 --> 00:14:39,962 because that's what I do. 382 00:14:39,962 --> 00:14:42,047 So I feel like I'd identify with that a little bit. 383 00:14:42,047 --> 00:14:43,757 So from one evil genius to another 384 00:14:43,757 --> 00:14:45,634 there might be some connection. 385 00:14:45,634 --> 00:14:47,052 - I liked that I also, 386 00:14:47,052 --> 00:14:50,222 it was very came across as very compassionate Rob, 387 00:14:50,222 --> 00:14:52,725 which is a great strategy for a first date. 388 00:14:52,725 --> 00:14:53,851 Where you almost like, 389 00:14:53,851 --> 00:14:57,062 I sacrifice myself to help other people. 390 00:14:57,062 --> 00:14:58,606 You don't need to call me a hero, 391 00:14:58,606 --> 00:15:00,733 but that might be a word that would occur to you 392 00:15:00,733 --> 00:15:02,151 when describing what I do in the world. 393 00:15:02,151 --> 00:15:04,653 So way to humble brag on yourself, Rob, 394 00:15:04,653 --> 00:15:07,031 without sounding like you're bragging on yourself. 395 00:15:07,031 --> 00:15:09,992 Thank you both for playing Date Night I.T. 396 00:15:09,992 --> 00:15:10,826 - You're welcome. 397 00:15:10,826 --> 00:15:11,660 - Thank you. 398 00:15:11,660 --> 00:15:14,079 - What are the battles that you're seeing play out 399 00:15:14,079 --> 00:15:15,331 with respect to a business, 400 00:15:15,331 --> 00:15:18,292 getting more environmentally sustainable? 401 00:15:18,292 --> 00:15:21,295 - Well, the things that I have seen have been around 402 00:15:21,295 --> 00:15:23,964 people's perception of what that means, right? 403 00:15:23,964 --> 00:15:26,717 So what I try to do is try to help organizations 404 00:15:26,717 --> 00:15:28,761 frame it in a way that is good for their organization. 405 00:15:28,761 --> 00:15:31,847 And it has nothing to do with the politics of Green IT. 406 00:15:31,847 --> 00:15:33,849 And while I don't believe 407 00:15:33,849 --> 00:15:35,267 it necessarily has to be political. 408 00:15:35,267 --> 00:15:36,685 That doesn't mean that you don't 409 00:15:36,685 --> 00:15:38,938 think that that carries a bunch of baggage with it. 410 00:15:38,938 --> 00:15:39,980 - Right. 411 00:15:39,980 --> 00:15:42,024 Rob, what kind of battles are you seeing playing out 412 00:15:42,024 --> 00:15:43,442 similar to what Pamela brought up 413 00:15:43,442 --> 00:15:46,070 or some other element of conflict? 414 00:15:46,070 --> 00:15:49,490 - Well, the difficulty often is that there's a perception 415 00:15:49,490 --> 00:15:51,450 that sustainability means higher costs 416 00:15:51,450 --> 00:15:54,912 and in a competitive environment, higher cost is death. 417 00:15:54,912 --> 00:15:58,040 And so you reach a certain amount of resistance 418 00:15:58,040 --> 00:15:59,750 towards doing something that's right, 419 00:15:59,750 --> 00:16:02,252 for fear that by doing that right thing, 420 00:16:02,252 --> 00:16:03,671 you're going to be less competitive 421 00:16:03,671 --> 00:16:06,256 and maybe go out of business, that's no longer, really true. 422 00:16:06,256 --> 00:16:09,301 The sustainable technologies have advanced to a degree 423 00:16:09,301 --> 00:16:12,346 where you can actually be sustainable and save costs up. 424 00:16:12,346 --> 00:16:14,264 Most noticeable during this pandemic time 425 00:16:14,264 --> 00:16:16,934 has been a shortage of raw materials and supplies, 426 00:16:16,934 --> 00:16:19,645 particularly chips, being able to move 427 00:16:19,645 --> 00:16:21,605 to a more sustainable supply chain 428 00:16:21,605 --> 00:16:24,358 is actually a much more reliable supply chain as well 429 00:16:24,358 --> 00:16:27,027 because you've got better metrics in the supply chain 430 00:16:27,027 --> 00:16:29,154 and you can better anticipate shortages 431 00:16:29,154 --> 00:16:30,614 as opposed to being pummeled by them. 432 00:16:31,198 --> 00:16:34,034 My last question for both of you, Rob, I'll start with you. 433 00:16:34,034 --> 00:16:36,036 Why do you care? 434 00:16:36,036 --> 00:16:37,371 Why are you concerned? 435 00:16:37,371 --> 00:16:38,580 Why are you spending time on? 436 00:16:38,580 --> 00:16:39,832 Why are you invested 437 00:16:39,832 --> 00:16:42,876 in making this part of the industry more green? 438 00:16:42,876 --> 00:16:44,169 - Well, as I get older, 439 00:16:44,169 --> 00:16:45,879 I recognize that there's gonna be a moment, 440 00:16:45,879 --> 00:16:47,214 where I'm gonna look back at my life 441 00:16:47,214 --> 00:16:49,383 and wonder if I did anything meaningful. 442 00:16:49,383 --> 00:16:51,510 So I believe in this because I wanna leave 443 00:16:51,510 --> 00:16:53,679 the world a better place than I found it. 444 00:16:53,679 --> 00:16:55,597 I think that's the one thing I could say 445 00:16:55,597 --> 00:16:58,308 in my last moments that was successful. 446 00:16:58,308 --> 00:16:59,351 - Same question to you, Pamela. 447 00:16:59,351 --> 00:17:00,436 - Yeah I have to echo that, 448 00:17:00,436 --> 00:17:03,605 that as you, when you first start out in your career, 449 00:17:03,605 --> 00:17:05,774 you think about what you can do to be successful, 450 00:17:05,774 --> 00:17:07,651 how you make the organization successful. 451 00:17:07,651 --> 00:17:08,485 And now you're thinking 452 00:17:08,485 --> 00:17:09,862 about how you make the world a better place. 453 00:17:09,862 --> 00:17:14,074 And having fallen in love with technology at fourth grade, 454 00:17:14,074 --> 00:17:15,576 I still feel like technology 455 00:17:15,576 --> 00:17:17,077 is an answer to the world's problems. 456 00:17:17,077 --> 00:17:18,495 If you use it effectively, 457 00:17:18,495 --> 00:17:21,165 it can change the world that we live in for good. 458 00:17:21,165 --> 00:17:22,458 - If you use it effectively, 459 00:17:22,458 --> 00:17:25,794 thank you both for making this garage a better place, 460 00:17:25,794 --> 00:17:27,755 bringing some great ideas to light. 461 00:17:27,755 --> 00:17:31,258 We have one more trick up our sleeve before we wrap. 462 00:17:32,134 --> 00:17:34,344 If we wanna build a more sustainable future, 463 00:17:34,344 --> 00:17:36,263 we need well-informed citizens. 464 00:17:36,263 --> 00:17:39,266 We've gotta be mindful of what technology does to the world 465 00:17:39,266 --> 00:17:41,101 all the way downstream. 466 00:17:41,101 --> 00:17:45,147 So we're gonna play a friendly game of green tech trivia. 467 00:17:45,147 --> 00:17:47,983 Now the is gonna get a statue of Rachel Carson 468 00:17:47,983 --> 00:17:49,276 made out of polystyrene 469 00:17:49,276 --> 00:17:51,361 and maybe a lifetime supply of single use penguins. 470 00:17:51,361 --> 00:17:53,322 I kid, that's a terrible thing to joke about, 471 00:17:53,322 --> 00:17:55,866 but are you ready to play a silly game with me? 472 00:17:55,866 --> 00:17:56,700 - Yes. 473 00:17:56,700 --> 00:17:57,534 - All right. 474 00:17:57,534 --> 00:17:58,368 - Sure. 475 00:17:58,368 --> 00:17:59,203 - So a couple of rounds of trivia, 476 00:17:59,203 --> 00:18:02,039 I will ask a question or read off the multiple choice. 477 00:18:02,039 --> 00:18:03,457 I'll get a response from both of you 478 00:18:03,457 --> 00:18:05,793 and I will deem one of you worthy and one of you not. 479 00:18:05,793 --> 00:18:08,378 (upbeat music) 480 00:18:10,631 --> 00:18:11,799 First question, 481 00:18:11,799 --> 00:18:14,885 how often does the average American buy a new computer? 482 00:18:15,803 --> 00:18:20,474 Every year, A, every three years, B, every five years, 483 00:18:20,474 --> 00:18:22,810 C or every 10 years, D. 484 00:18:22,810 --> 00:18:26,313 So one, three, five or 10 years, Rob. 485 00:18:26,313 --> 00:18:29,399 - Well it really kind of depends on who you're talking to, 486 00:18:29,399 --> 00:18:30,609 but I'll say five. 487 00:18:30,609 --> 00:18:31,652 - Rob votes five. 488 00:18:31,652 --> 00:18:33,570 - My vote was for five. 489 00:18:33,570 --> 00:18:36,615 - You're equally wrong, it's three, well done. 490 00:18:36,615 --> 00:18:37,449 We're moving faster. 491 00:18:37,449 --> 00:18:40,077 - It's funny, three is what we tell people to do, 492 00:18:40,077 --> 00:18:43,997 but IT is typically rotated on a five-year cycle. 493 00:18:43,997 --> 00:18:45,999 - But I guess we were talking to average Americans, 494 00:18:45,999 --> 00:18:47,835 not IT employees. 495 00:18:47,835 --> 00:18:49,670 - You're talking consumer and not IT. 496 00:18:50,671 --> 00:18:52,756 - Not people responding to the priesthood. 497 00:18:54,174 --> 00:18:55,759 Next question. 498 00:18:55,759 --> 00:18:58,595 What percentage of the power consumed by data centers 499 00:18:58,595 --> 00:19:00,013 is for air conditioning? 500 00:19:00,013 --> 00:19:08,063 Your options are 5%, 10%, 20% or 40%, we just doubled. 501 00:19:08,272 --> 00:19:09,106 - I'll say 40%. 502 00:19:09,106 --> 00:19:11,358 - You're gonna say 40, Rob? 503 00:19:11,358 --> 00:19:12,901 - I'm gonna say 20. 504 00:19:12,901 --> 00:19:16,947 - Pamela you are correct, it is 40%, yeah. 505 00:19:16,947 --> 00:19:18,532 And I like sleeping in the cold room, 506 00:19:18,532 --> 00:19:21,618 but that's ice cold, next question. 507 00:19:21,618 --> 00:19:22,828 - Great, I'm zero for two. 508 00:19:22,828 --> 00:19:26,081 - You're O for two, that's great, you're one for two. 509 00:19:26,081 --> 00:19:31,086 How many tons of e-waste were created globally in 2020? 510 00:19:31,336 --> 00:19:37,885 Four tons, 16 tons, 39.6 tons or 43 tons. 511 00:19:40,470 --> 00:19:41,847 - I'm gonna go 43. 512 00:19:41,847 --> 00:19:44,892 - I would say 39.6 because it's just specific. 513 00:19:44,892 --> 00:19:47,978 - Yup, the specificity fooled you it is 43. 514 00:19:47,978 --> 00:19:51,148 Rob, you get one on the board, well done 515 00:19:51,148 --> 00:19:53,025 that's 16 pounds per person, 516 00:19:53,025 --> 00:19:56,111 and it's expected to double in 10 to 15 years, 517 00:19:56,111 --> 00:19:57,988 making it the fastest growing kind 518 00:19:57,988 --> 00:20:00,824 of domestic waste in the world. 519 00:20:00,824 --> 00:20:02,534 So I believe your both one for three now. 520 00:20:02,534 --> 00:20:07,539 So we've evened things up and I've got one more question, 521 00:20:07,664 --> 00:20:09,208 compared to the national average 522 00:20:09,208 --> 00:20:12,920 median wages in the renewable energy industry are? 523 00:20:12,920 --> 00:20:17,090 A, 10% lower, B, the same, 524 00:20:17,090 --> 00:20:22,095 C, 35% higher or D, 50% higher. 525 00:20:23,555 --> 00:20:26,350 - 35% is what I'd say, 35% higher. 526 00:20:27,434 --> 00:20:30,437 - I would say 35 too, but I'll change it to 50. 527 00:20:31,438 --> 00:20:33,690 - Should have stuck with your gut on that one. 528 00:20:33,690 --> 00:20:36,235 Now Rob's in the lead at 35%, 529 00:20:36,235 --> 00:20:38,070 they also tend to have better health plans 530 00:20:38,070 --> 00:20:40,864 and retirement benefits making them more sustainable, 531 00:20:40,864 --> 00:20:45,661 not just for the world, but for the individual in that job. 532 00:20:45,661 --> 00:20:47,204 I got one more for you, Rob. 533 00:20:47,204 --> 00:20:49,248 I think you're gonna really enjoy this question. 534 00:20:49,248 --> 00:20:52,834 Obviously, Pam play as well, but Bitcoin mining 535 00:20:52,834 --> 00:20:57,130 emits as much carbon each year as which country? 536 00:20:57,130 --> 00:21:01,802 The United States, New Zealand, Monaco or Vatican City. 537 00:21:04,554 --> 00:21:06,348 - Whoa, it emits a lot. 538 00:21:06,348 --> 00:21:09,393 I don't think it emits, I'll say New Zealand. 539 00:21:11,019 --> 00:21:12,521 - I'll go with Rob. 540 00:21:12,521 --> 00:21:15,107 - That's wonderful 'cause Rob was right, 541 00:21:15,107 --> 00:21:16,566 which makes you right. 542 00:21:16,566 --> 00:21:19,611 I like the strategy tying your fates together, 543 00:21:19,611 --> 00:21:22,572 as all of ours are in this interconnected world. 544 00:21:22,572 --> 00:21:24,616 Thank you both for playing these games 545 00:21:24,616 --> 00:21:27,119 and bringing your A games to the table, appreciate you. 546 00:21:27,119 --> 00:21:29,496 - Thank you for having me. - My pleasure. 547 00:21:29,496 --> 00:21:31,790 - That's our show, thanks to our guests, 548 00:21:31,790 --> 00:21:34,793 Pamela Rucker and Rob Enderle and thanks to you, 549 00:21:34,793 --> 00:21:37,462 the faceless online masses for joining us. 550 00:21:37,462 --> 00:21:38,797 I'm Baratunde Thurston 551 00:21:38,797 --> 00:21:41,967 and I'll see you on the next the "Lenovo Late Night I.T." 552 00:21:41,967 --> 00:21:44,511 (upbeat music)