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- What I try and do is come up

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with something that you
wouldn't get anywhere else.

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You don't quite get it at a play,

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you don't get it at a magic show.

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I really try and come up
with something that's unique

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and also that over delivers,

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that gives you more than you're expecting.

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(intro music)

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- I wanna start by saying that

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a lot of people have
tried to categorize you

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and they do, you know, a review of you

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or write about you

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and, but it's very hard to categorize you.

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So, I'm very interested in finding out

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how you categorize you?

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- Ooh, I like the fact that I've, sort of,

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managed to avoid it.

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I think it makes it

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easier to do

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all sorts of different things.

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So, like in the UK, the other year

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I had a book out on happiness

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which was, sort of, basically
about Greek philosophy

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and a TV show that involves
someone get murdered

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and a ghost train, a VR ghost train.

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So, it's quite nice that
I've sort of purposefully

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managed to avoid it.

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In terms of the stage show that I do

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and everything that, so, I've
had like a 20 year career

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back home, so it's sort of
done this over the years

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but what it goes back to, I guess,

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is a psychological form of magic

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and it's a show that's
about more than that.

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It's about the stories
that we tell ourselves,

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the narratives that we live by,

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I think those things are,

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it's about the audience essentially,

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which is always gonna be
more interesting than me.

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There's a thing with magic that,

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because it's basically
about impressing people,

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that it is core

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and I've definitely got one foot in magic.

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This is a big, you know, it's
definitely part of what I do.

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There's this subtext that's always just

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'look at me, aren't I clever'

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and I think that
interested me at the start

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when that was important to me

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but now I think that there's anything

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that makes the show I do different,

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it's that it really isn't about me,

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it's a show very much about the audience.

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- You've done so many
different types of live shows.

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You have TV specials.

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When it comes to starting
to work on something like

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how do you approach it?

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How do you even start of that initial idea

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of what an entire show is going to be?

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- It starts with,

59
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my starting point is always
I've got a couple of thousand

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people locked in a room with me

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and I sort of have carte
blanche to do anything,

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so, what would be an interesting thing

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to take people through

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and then the next thing is, sort of,

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theatrical moments like things
that you just know would be,

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for an audience member,

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- Wowing.
- interesting or tense

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or extraordinary to go through.

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And, you know, it don't always hit that.

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I mean this is the, kind
of, you know, early stages

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is you're thinking what should it be

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but that's sort of,

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it's all based on that

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and way after that
comes the actual tricks,

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the things that I'm doing

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and it's often the other around

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with traditional magic.

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You tend to start with the method

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and then after the method
you build the trick

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and then from the trick it's
just the show is whatever it is

81
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but I've always worked the other way.

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Very much starting from what
the audience experiences

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'cause my target is the ongoing experience

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of an audience member.

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That's equivalent to my
deck of cards or whatever.

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- Is it fair to say that you, almost like,

87
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think about what the big 'Aha!' moment is

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and work backwards from there?

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- Yeah, it's, what I try and
do is come up with something

90
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that you wouldn't get anywhere else.

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You don't quite get it at a play,

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you don't get it at a magic show.

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It's a, I really try and come up

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with something that's unique

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and also that over delivers,

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that gives you more than
what you're expecting.